Welcome to the hair of the dog podcast. I'm Nicole Begley. And today we are going to be talking with Holly Montgomery from Brenda Berry acres and Calgary Canada. We're going to be talking all about branding and how that can lead to partnerships with other businesses and all sorts of other good stuff. Stay tuned.

Welcome to the hair of the dog podcast. If you're a pet photographer, ready to make more money and start living a life by your design, you've come to the right place. And now your hopes, pet photographer, travel addicts, chocolate martini, comma sewer, Nicole Begley,

Everybody Nicole here. And I'm so excited that you are joining me for yet another hair of the dog podcast. I can't believe, or on 34 episodes already. I feel like I just started, uh, thank you so much for being here with us. I appreciate it more than you will ever know. Now, before we dive into this episode in our conversation with Holly, I just wanted to remind you about our free five day challenge that we have coming up next week and the hair of the dog community. It is unleash your style five days to creating your unique vision. Now, how important is style Nicole? You're asking, well, it's pretty critical because if you have the same work as all of the other pet photographers in your community, then, well, you guys are kind of like a commodity and it's not going to be pulling your target market towards you quite as much as you would. Like. We actually talk a bit about this in this episode, coming up about how important it is to be true to your brand and figure out why it is you do what you do and share a little bit more about yourself than the surface level. I like dogs and I photographed dogs because I love my dogs. We need to go deeper than that. We need to go deeper than that in our style as well. It's not enough just to create pretty images of dogs. We need to start creating images that are true to us. Now, wait, Nicole, hold on. I'd like to photograph a whole bunch of different things. I can't possibly choose one style. Nobody ever said, choosing your style or creating your style, forces you to fit in this little teeny tiny box and only create one image over and over again. That's not really how style works. There are under overarching, overarching, overarching pieces of what we do that bring all of our work together. For instance, in my work I have outdoor work. I have natural light work. I have studio work. I have work outdoors with flash. I have all of these different things that you'd think, Oh my gosh, there's no way you can build a style with that. But they are because my work has a cohesiveness to it in the terms of, I love negative space. I love a connection with the dog. Um, I'm pretty sure all of my images have the dog looking directly in the camera. I don't know. I'm just really attracted to that. Um, but it's also my editing style and it has a little of a almost painterly effect, but it's not really painterly. Um, and it's the tones that I use and just all of these different things that it's sometimes hard to, to figure out what it is that goes together and what it is that makes us style. So just because you are going to start creating your style, doesn't mean you have to shoot one particular thing. It will just help you start to photograph all of the different things in a more cohesive manner by starting to look at what it is you really like and how you can start adding more of that into your work. And we're going to go through it in a systematic way. That is just going to make sense to you, whether you are left brain or right brain. So you definitely don't want to miss this. Go ahead and go to www.hairofthedogacademy.com/unleash and register for our challenge today. Okay, now let's get back to this interview with Holly. Enjoy, Hey, pet photographers. Are you struggling to bring your vision to life? Do you long for creating a style that is true to you? Are you ready to leave the fads and trends behind and learn how to create a style that is uniquely yours so that your work can stand apart here at hair of the dog, we are hosting a free five day unleash your style challenge to help you do just that registration is open now. So go to www dot Harrop, the dog academy.com forward slash unleash to save your seat. We can't wait to see what you create. Everybody at Nicole here from hair of the dog. And today I have a very special guest with me, my good friend, Holly Montgomery from Calgary, Canada. Welcome Holly to the hair of the dog podcast. Hi Nicole. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for being here with me. Yeah. Funny story of Holly narrower, just reminiscing. Holly was with us for a little bit in bark shore. One of the Barker retreats that I teach with Kaylee Greer and Charlotte Reeves three years ago, right now this minute, it just popped off of my time hop this morning of us photographing dogs in front of the amazing Roman Aqua duct in Southern France, beautiful golden light with amazing food. I'm like, Oh my God, please take me back. I don't know about your other retreats, but do people talk about the food quite as much as they did for this particular one? No, I mean, we always have good food. Like we've never, we've never once had one and we're like, Oh, the food wasn't very good, but Fios cooking and, uh, France was, that was a whole nother world of delicious. And once again, it's a pet photography podcast, but I've brought it back to food. I was like a running joke that at least every other episode, we somehow start talking about food a little bit hard. Not to with me to good food.

I know me too, me too. Maybe I need to start another podcast, like a food of the world, except for fruit, me and Tara. And we'll just no fruit, no fruit for us. Very funny. Anyway, anyway, so happy to have you here with us. Yeah. I've known you online for quite a few years. France was the first time I got to meet you in person and you've always been a photographer. I had admired you have beautiful, beautiful work. Um, lot of the work that you produce. And so I guess just tell us a little bit about your background of your pet photography journey and how all that started. Okay. This is always a loaded question with me because I do a lot of stuff. Anybody who knows me knows I do a lot of stuff. So, um, it was started just when I got out of college actually. And my college degree is a bachelor of applied business in entrepreneurship with a major in computer information systems. And I'd only been out a really short time. I think I worked in the field two years when I got really tired of it and didn't enjoy it anymore. So I actually went to manage a health food store for pets. And, uh, it's quite a transition from college to retail, but I wasn't happy. And I can't work in a job where I'm not happy. So, uh, I, I went there and I started that. And then the passion for photography came up. I was training my own dogs and I just show up at trials, agility trials, and that sort of thing, just with my camera for fun. And one of the trainers that I've volunteered for actually said, you need to charge for this. And that was back in 2005. And at that time there wasn't very many people at all doing that. So, um, it was really great to actually manage that health food store for pets. And they allowed me to promote my own work as well and do that on the side, willing work there. And I've been doing both off and on since since 2005. And now I own my own, uh, pet health food store, actually two of them. Now we just opened a second one last September and I've been doing the pet photography along the way when I can. So yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah. And then with your pet photography, because you know, there's definitely ways that the industry quote industry says, you must do it this way, new bus do it that way you must do in person sales, you must phone call your clients all the time. You must do this, you must do that. And while I do believe there are best practices, and if you're going to choose to not go the same way, have the best practice route, you need to have reasons why and make sure that you're, you know, covering any potential red flags things that can bite you in the butt. But I do believe that you can build your business to make it look like whatever suits you. So yeah, you changed your business a bit from those, you know, the must do's the industry says I did tell us about that. Okay. Well, as I mentioned earlier, I can't do a job unless I'm happy. So when I started going down those typical routes of in person sales and that sort of thing, I, I quickly realized that I don't really have the attention span for it. I get bored really easily. And I just want to take the pictures and get you your images, make you happy and move along to the next thing. So, uh, I started doing things like creating packages that were front loaded. So when a customer, if they were looking around for a photographer, they would see, well, you can get this digital package for X. It includes a session. There's not a lot of questions I found with, um, minimum purchases and that sort of thing. People were always confused as the$250 include the digital files. And then I was having to explain, no, it doesn't. And then some people would fall off after you explain that. Cause they didn't understand. And then, yeah, just a lot of stuff like that. Like I wanted to make it so easy that people didn't really have a lot to ask me. We just showed up for the appointment and, and, and this isn't without delivering amazing customer service. I don't believe that that can go, especially for the prices I charge. I'm not a shoot and burn photographer. So, um, this process isn't quick, they still get a lot of attention, but I just want to minimize the time I spend with my clients. And that's not necessarily because I don't love spending time with them. But, um, as we've talked about, I am an introvert, so I'd rather be alone. And I also have a lot of other stuff going on. So I had to figure out a way that it could kind of hold my attention span and, and still make customers happy. So those front loaded packages really helped. There's no questions about minimum purchases. Cause I set the prices. It's X amount of dollars for this, or you can choose X amount of dollars for that and they can do ad-ons and they still get beautiful artwork and they still get a lot of things that they wouldn't get from a shoot and burn photographer. And so I didn't feel like I was really compromising anything. And in some cases I found that people actually found that easier to understand. Yeah,

No, I love that. I've actually been toying with the idea of kind of changing out my pricing a little bit and still having a custom option. So where it has like a reservation retainer that can go towards whatever, if, if, you know, if you really want something specific, but also putting on my website a couple packages, like you mentioned, because I feel like from a consumer point of view that it's kind of frustrating when you don't really know, and I know ideas and ranges and starting at, but then people make up their own stories of what things cost and maybe they're making up the story that it's way less expensive. And they found out what it is and they're like shocked and say, Oh my God, forget it. Or they make up the story that it's going to be way more expensive than it is. And they don't even bother to contact you because they assume that they can't afford it. So, yeah. So I'm thinking I'm like, I would love to put together like one or two little packages that it's just like, Hey, you want this, this is what it includes. And we can still, you know, and it still has that customer service. This is the key. And you mentioned because it would still be, Oh, you book that there's still a consultation beforehand that I usually do on the phone or you can do on zoom or you can do in person, you know, depending global pandemic status there's, you know, so you're still holding their hand throughout the process and, and making them have an incredible experience and creating even a somewhat custom experience for them, depending on what it is they want to photograph. Okay. Are we focusing on pictures of just the dog? Do you want pictures of your family? Do you want, you know, what are we thinking for a wall piece that's included in this collection? Do you want that of you do vision that of just your dog, have you guys together, um, you know, what's your stead decor look like? These are the finishes that I offer that I think would look great. So you're still helping them with all these things, but you're just giving them more pricing up front. And I feel like because the key is, you know, there's always going to be people that are like, well, and especially to let me back up for a second, if you're offering only digital files, like you're not offering, offering any printed products, then I feel like you do start to get into the commodity lane. Cause people don't understand why are your digital files different than, you know, Joe, Schmoe's down the street, even though your work is very different, but when you start offering products and things like that, then you no longer can be compared to the person just doing digitals because you're offering something else. And the, the key for that, or if you're doing more traditional session fee purchase products afterwards is communicating the value of what you offer, which comes back to that whole experience. It comes back to your website and the experience on the website and the design of your website and just your branding and your like how you reach out to the clients, what that process is like, how much education you give them and, you know, help and things like that. So, yeah, that's a long tangent. I just want to just say that's awesome.

No, I totally agree with you. And I think that's where I'm, I'm really passionate about branding. And I think that when you have a good solid brand like that, those people, and I've seen this myself, those people, they won't compare you to Joe Schmoe down the street because you're you and they're them. And I do agree with the commodity thing though, being that I own pet food stores. I know this bag of food cost. It's the exact same bag of food in every store. So people will start to compare you based on price. But even in that case, we do get people that come to see us because of our knowledge and the advice we give them and we help their pets get better. So that's all part of building your brand and who you are too. So maybe saving that dollar down the street isn't as big of a deal to them because they're getting the customer service and same goes for photography. And I find that actually those two businesses really overlap because now when I offer something in one of them they'll same clients will go and support me there that would support me in my photography business because they're just my clients. Now they're just for me, but they want something, they go to me and anybody can do that.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Tell us about your, your kind of rebrand and your, your move from, you know, you were always doing the pet health food store a little bit and your photography, but you went from Brenda Barry pet photography to Brindle Bay, Brindle Berry

It's fast,

Which has the cutest branding on the face of the planet. I love it so much. It's so adorable. Um, so yeah, so just tell us about like what, what prompted that, or how did that all come about?

Well, that was kind of prompted because I kept finding myself having to move my priorities and they would, depending on, as you said, global pandemic status, when that hit people started hoarding, things got crazy. We had to start disinfecting our stores. We had to start monitoring people and we needed people in the stores because the money it was happening there, uh, Pepperdine, roughy, not so much. I started to think, well, when it comes to my pet photography brand, um, what can I do to kind of make myself a little more secure, should something like this happen? And, uh, I didn't anticipate this would happen, but I do. I have always wanted to find some more passive income and kind of, um, kind of broaden my range a little bit because they get bored easily. And I just thought, well, the photography kind of comes and goes. It always has since I started and it's always there in the background, but sometimes I have to shift and do something else. And I just thought, well, let's create an umbrella brand. That's essentially Brindle Berry acres equals Holly and anybody's brand. That's a solopreneur really should do that. All my blogging and everything I did on that website, I involved my pet nutrition experience and I can pull in clients and hits that way on that, on that photography site. So when they begin to build trust your clients, people begin to build trust with you. Then you're the one they choose for those things that you offer. And I actually had started making doggie desserts. I call them it's frozen yogurt for dogs that was born out of necessity because our stores couldn't find healthy dog yogurt, and there was a demand for it. So like, well that doesn't really belong on a photography site, but let's see, how can we make it belong? Let's make it part of the Brindle Berry acres theme, which is natural and healthy and happiness. And my theme is because your pup is your everything. That's my tagline. So if you believe that you want the best dog you deserve, you want the best photographer you want to the best nutrition and it all, it just fits. It's everything I know and I'm passionate about. So that's kinda why I went that direction.

I love that. And I love that too, because I feel like so many of us get stuck with why do we do this? And we're like, well, I like to photograph dogs. And then, and then the deeper, why is, Oh, well, because, you know, I lost a dog that I loved, you know, but there's usually so much more to that. I feel like those are very surface wise. And if you really dig down to what your passions are, you can start to see what these kind of underlying currents of your brand can be, which gosh, it's so critical that we have, because if we're not being true to ourselves, then you know, we are like every other pet photographer in our market and there's going to be more and more pet photographers in our market as this industry continues to grow, which there's still room for the industry to grow because gosh, how many households have

Pets a lot, even more now. So many about pets during the pandemic. So

Yeah, I got myself a quarantine baby horse.

I was like, wow, I'm traveling. At least I can create a baby.

No, that was going to wait until next year, but Oh, well

Just the setup,

But yeah, no, it's awesome. I know so many shelters had, you know, cleared so many cages because so many people were adopting pets during this time. And you know, and so many pets have become people's support during this time because especially if you live alone, I mean, I can imagine that. Yeah. I mean, I've got, I guess on the opposite of my husband and the two kids, sometimes I do, I'm like, man, I wish I lived alone

Slowly for a day or two

Disclaimer to that. It doesn't mean I really mean it

Total sleep for a little while. So it could just be me. I did it. Yeah.

Yeah. But anyway, yeah, I think it's just so important that we start to, to, you know, build a brand that reflects us. And I feel like these brand discoveries don't come overnight either. I feel like it's something that you should always kind of be looking for and, and seeing like how it evolves and what you're interested in and what sort of, you know, curiosity pulls you down certain paths. I feel like when you have these little curious inquisitions, you're like, Ooh, what is that? They, you should explore it because that means there's something more to it than just a passing thought. Often I'm angry. And I, I think that people, um, why it took me so long. I mean, I started in 2005, but it just took me so long to get to this point. It was just the confidence in saying, Hey, you have stuff to offer your, you just be, you that's like the best advice I can give people. Don't look on all the other photographers sites and say, well, they're saying this and you brought up a good point about people saying, why do I do this? Because I love photography. And I love dogs. Everyone says that. So when people are looking, it's like, well, you probably should love those two things. If that's what you're doing, like yeah, go a little bit deeper. People want deeper now. Definitely do. Like, they want to support a person. They don't want to know the grade. But yeah. Now I feel like the more you can get down to that, the more you're gonna attract the people that like need to work with you no matter what. And they don't care what you cost and they just love everything about you and your brand. And they are a hundred percent in, but you can't get that connection if you only go surface level. It's absolutely true. And that's exactly when I had to put pet photography on hold to go into the stores. These people that wanted me to do photograph their dogs are waiting. Yep. Yeah, I can do it. So that's, that's like the biggest compliment in the world. And those are the people that it doesn't even feel like work. Right, right, right. Yeah. So it's a win, win. They're loving you. You're loving working with them so much more than, you know, back before maybe when you're trying to serve everybody. Yeah. And you know, and you can start guys with this being true to yourself, just with little things with letting like your true voice, just shine through your website. You know, if you're sarcastic and, and you know what, you just like, let it come through in your copy. It doesn't have to sound like everybody's website. It shouldn't sound like everybody's website. I always like to throw out a little story of when I, like, when I realized I'm like, Oh my gosh, I want my clients to think this about me was when I was investing in a brand designer to give my, my brand a new identity makeover about five years ago. And you know, you start looking and you you're gaging. All right. The market was like 2,500, 3000 somewhere in that ballpark for most designers. And they were good. And I'm sure I would have been happy with their work, but then there was this one and their website was zany. And so off the wall and it cracked me up and just everything about them was like, I need to work with them. And they were twice as expensive as everybody else. And I still was like, I need to work with them. And then when I'm sending in my like inquiry to, to find out if they would work with me, I'm like,

Oh my gosh, I hope in your word. I'm like, please let me give you my money. And then I realized, Oh my God, hello. This is what I want to feel like.

And many of them do, you know, those clients that come in and they spend a couple thousand dollars without batting night. And they're like, thank you so much. And they like rave all over how much they loved everything about it. And thank you profusely. You're like, well, no, thank you.

I got gifts at Christmas time and cards from people. And it's like, I should be sending you the gift. And I had a client at once, bring me a big bag of items for my dogs. And I'm like, dude, you just spent$5,000. You should not be giving me. Right. And they do that every year. And those are the clients you want to work with. And you don't need as many clients if you find a handful of those people. So I mean, some of the downsides of putting, um, larger price tags up front in packages, and that sort of thing is you're going to get a lot more people saying, no, cause it's too high. There may be not inquiring. But those people that you just talked about, I had the exact same spirit experience with my brand designer. And you, you hit the nail on the head because you said you love my brand. And I paid a good person to help me with that brand. And it was the same thing. And she said, you know what? I don't do freelance business cards. I don't, I won't just make you a postcard. She said, I want to do your whole brand. Right. Right. And I'm like, well, I don't know if I really need that. And they're like, whatever you want, just tell me what I have to do and I'll do it.

Okay.

That's funny. Yeah. And then looking back, are you happy, of course, that you went with the whole, that, you know, she had, you do like the whole brand. Have you, do you have a whole new kind of appreciation, I guess, for, for your brand that's elevated to a whole nother level.

Absolutely. And we still she'll text me every so often. And she'll be like, how are you feeling today, Holly, she sent me a postcard the other day and said, you sounded down on our texts the other day, how you doing? And this was just a pick me up. And I don't know, I consider her a friend now. And I know a lot of consider their clients, friends too. And not to say, you have to divulge all your personal info to them, but it's just an easy relationship. Right. And money exchange hands. But, um, it's, it's, like I said is easy. It's just a flow and it's, I love it.

Yeah. And it's always, it's always a good decision to be a nice human.

Yeah.

Well we are first and foremost. Hopefully

If you're not don't follow me on Facebook. Yes.

Yeah. I know by putting ourselves out there like that, um, you know, and again, we don't have to divulge everything on social media and like, you know, tell everyone our deepest, darkest secrets, but by letting little pieces of you, like, you know, we're all onions, like a little, another little layer here and there. You're going to attract people to connect with you on a deeper level. And generally like the like energy attracts like energy and the people that you then start working with the client to friend, you know, jump is not that significant because you've been attracting people that you probably would be friends with anyway. And it's not something that you should go out there and force, like you could tell when you have those clients who you just love and you just want to send them an email and be like, Hey, how's fluffy. I hope you guys are doing well. Just wanted to send you a note. You know, that's their head. Doesn't ever have to be an alterior motive. There shouldn't be like, Oh, well, if I send this, Oh God, what are they going to think if you have, if you have an inkling to get in touch with the previous client to definitely do that. And yeah. And those people, people are always asking for referral programs and like, Oh my gosh, what do I have to do? How do I get more referrals? And really the key to referrals, at least I found, tell me about you. Holly is just connecting with these people and they want to refer. They're not looking to refer people for like to earn, you know, Brenda Berry bucks or this or that. It's like, you can still have some incentives, but their main motivation is because they had an amazing experience and they want to share that.

Yeah, they, yeah, they absolutely want them to go through the same thing. And when it comes to something like photography, I always think about, um, car repairs, cause that's car repairs or something I know nothing about, but I need them. But then when it comes time to find somebody to do it, I'm like, who do I trust? How do I even screen them? I don't know anything about car repairs. If they tell me this is wrong, I'll believe them. It can take me for a ride. And, but if somebody says, Hey, my neighbor, so, and so does this, that's the guy who I'm hiring. I don't even really care what their cost is. I mean, I still have to be able to afford it, but yeah, I kind of forget your question, but no, I find that most of my referrals are word of mouth and that's the best way to get it. And even our retail stores are a bit of an anomaly because we get a lot of that too. It's not really that normal for retail, but they they're a little bit, I mean, once they get in there, they're like, yeah, that's where I'm going.

Yeah. Well you have, I believe I haven't been in your retail stores that have not been up to visit you yet, but, um, you know, it's a higher touch retail experience. It's not like Walmart, like you're going in and you're offering, you know, you're offering a higher level service to your clients, even in the retail space, which again is what I think gets people to fall in love with the brand and, and keep referring it. Cause they know that you guys, you know, don't have ulterior motives of, you know, the, the car maintenance guy. That's like, Oh yeah, I'm going to tell you, you need new brakes, but they're fine. They know that you're yeah, that you're offering advice based on what is the best interest for them goes a long way. Absolutely. When they see results, which they will see also with photography, it's proven. So then you're molding and that's when you get the referrals, they're like, yeah, I had this expectation. The person blew me out of the water. This, I now have this valuable piece of wall art or this food that made my dog feel better. And now that person can do no wrong in my mind. And I do that all based on reality. I have no problem telling people not to spend money on something. I don't think they need builds trust too. Yup. For sure. Yeah. And we can do that in our businesses too. You know, if somebody, if somebody is asking, you know, what size looks best for this wall, you know, and you're not going to say smaller than what it should be just to say, Oh, I just to say it should be smaller, but just giving them actual, honest advice of, Oh, if that was my wall, I'd probably do the 16 by 24 or, you know, the 20 by 30 looks great there. Or, you know, if it does get too big and you're like, ah, that one's a little bit big. I'd go maybe one size smaller. Just, just giving them the honest feedback. Yeah. It goes a long way. I have a card maintenance guy here. That's the same way that I will literally do whatever he says now because he was recommended to us. And he's just like, I don't know. I just get a, um, a connection of, I could tell that he's honest, but then also from some other, um, experiences like my car, gosh, it was last year. It was, I really thought my transmission was going, cause you know, 120, some thousand miles, like it's been around the block. So at 11, 12 years old, I'm like, Oh no transmission is going to go. And then it was like, you know, having some issues off and on, I got it to him. He's like, Oh, you just need new brakes. I'm like, Oh really? Just like a quick new brakes. And then it was good as new I'm like, Oh, thanks. So like a couple other things where I would like take it in with this big, awful thing that I think is going to be terrible. It's like, Oh no, we just have to do this for no reason. Yeah. It's not like, Oh, you need brakes to do that transmission cars really well. That's funny. Yeah. All right. So yeah. So one of the other things I know that people get really hung up on pet photographers and Holly, you have a, an interesting view on this because you were on the other side of the retail space. Now granted your retail space, the pet photographer you partner with is yourself. That's a little bit different, but from the perspective of a retail space owner, what are some ways that maybe that are, and aren't helpful for pet photographers to, to offer, to reach out? Cause I think this is where so many people get stuck. They're like, man, there's this great business. And they seem to have my target market and I have my target market and we can both serve this target market. Um, but you know, they just don't know even where to start and they get concerned that it's going to be totally one sided, which the way some people approach it very well might be. Um, so just, yeah. What are some, maybe some do's and don'ts that you can speak to from experience maybe.

All right. Well, I'll start out by saying that on the retail side, I've been doing this almost 14 years now. And at that point in time, you start to get a little bit jaded. I've seen it all I've seen. So I can tell you that a lot of don'ts and I can tell you that I might be a little bit more bitter than a story I can give you like the absolute best way to handle it type of thing. So in my experience, I've had people, one that sticks out in my mind is a person that had a, she did dog training and I think she had a boarding facility and she very gregarious. She walked first herself in the door, threw her cards on the, on the counter and just said, I'd like you to put these up for me and kind of walked out the door and firstly didn't even bother to introduce herself. Didn't I'm very, I don't know how to say this really, but I have my values all set out. I know how I feel about training. I know how I feel about food and know how I feel about vet care. Uh, if you just walk in and slap your card on the, on the counter, without telling me anything about you, it's going in the garbage, like I'm not even going to talk to you about it. So, um, my best piece of advice would be to go to those businesses that you frequent yourself. I didn't know this person from a hole in the ground. She never, I'm not money grubbing or hungry or hungry that way, but she's never given me a penny, but yet somehow expected that the high rent I pay for my retail location, I have no problem putting her cards out. And I would suggest going to those stores where you do, you do shop and they know you because it's going to be a lot harder for me to say to my customer's face. Cause I want to say face with you and I want to help you. You've helped me. Um, it should go both ways. Absolutely. So the first thing I would say is probably research the business a little bit and see if you can find out what those values are and see where you connect and what you have in common and then ask them how and when do you want me to reach out to you? Or if you want me to, um, the hardest thing is when you're putting away 2000 pounds of food and oftentimes it's frozen and someone comes in and decides, Oh, I got this wonderful business. Let me tell you about it. Timing kind of sex right now. You know, like, don't do that. Like, yeah, you got to kind of approach them in a way, like, how would you want to be approached if you were at work, say you had an office job, would you want somebody to just walk right into your job and start soliciting to you? And also you have to keep in mind that we get solicited to a lot, right? So there gets to a where it's like, um, you see someone with a clipboard or a briefcase coming and you're just like, Ugh.

Wall goes up before they even opened their mouth and perfectly. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, from the business owner's perspective, you know, you've built up 14 years building this brand or 15 years building this brand that you've created. So when you then have other businesses, even just a business card up in your business, if somebody takes the business card from your business and goes and has a bad experience that reflects back on you because you recommended it. So, you know, I know people listening might be like, Oh, I don't know why they were so nervous as I'm like, because they've built. Imagine if you've built your brand for 10 years and somebody is like, Oh, just recommend this. Well, no, because my recommendations carry weight. You know, like you guys out there and hair of the dog land, how would you like it? If I just recommended every, in all things that come across my email of like, Hey, send us to your audience, Hey, share this with your audience because that'd be sharing something new every day. So yeah. I only share things that I know that you'll find value in

And make sure it's up to your standards. Because if you refer somebody that's like you saying, I would use that person myself and then people value your opinion because they have built that trust with you. So you do need that. And I think one really great way that you could do that. And I I'm the last person who'd ever say, give stuff away for free. But if you want that business to have an experience with you, so they trust you, give them the experience and give it to them. Exactly. Like you would give it to a normal client. So they could say, because I've had experience putting my artwork up, there's another pet store in the city. That's got my artwork up and I've never gotten one referral from them. And these are a huge pieces, the pieces on their wall. Because when people go into a pet store, they assume they're going to see pictures of dogs on the wall. Right. They don't know if it's a local photographer took that. They don't know they could get those same pictures. And if the business owner has no experience with you, they're not going to talk about you. They're not. And that particular business just bought stock art off me. So they aren't going to that mean anything to them. They don't know the dogs. They didn't have an experience with me. They didn't have any of that. But if you go to a business, my other store where I don't work at as much, my employee's dogs are on the wall. So when someone says, Oh, you have a Malamute. Yeah, he's right up there. And then they're like, Whoa. And then they see the pictures up there. And then they noticed them pointed them out. And then they can say, yeah, this is what we did. This is how it worked. And then you've already had somebody that's pre sold it to you. You're getting referrals almost. They're not for free because you invested your time to give them that session. But that's the result you're going to get in return.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we need to approach. And I always tell people like, you need to approach these from straight giving. Like without any sort of, well, if I do this, this will happen. Like just straight give in the relationship. And then you'll see too, if you mesh with that person and if you don't, it was going to be a good fit anyway. Um, and if you do then, then things will naturally progress. And you know, I am also not an advocate of working for free, but in those types of situations that yeah, they need to trust you. So you need to give them the experience. So that's really one of the biggest ways to do that. Or, you know, I don't know how you feel about this, Holly too, but even approaching them and just saying, Hey, I'm a professional pet photographer in the area, introduce yourself a little bit, ask them if they have any photography needs, let them know that you'd be willing to, you know, willing to, to help them with whatever it is and give them, gosh, you know, I, I guess it's hard. I don't know. I'm thinking off the cuff here with, you know, marketing photos or things like that, or just letting them know. I have a whole bunch of dog images, stock images. If you need any images for your website or this or that, I'd be happy to provide you with some, even if it's a fair trade of just, Hey yeah, go ahead. Just use some of these. I mean, you know, or talking with them, giving them that experience again, cause even the I'd love to do something fun for your clients. They don't want you to do anything fun for their clients until they've vetted you and know that you're going to be fun for their clients and not frustrating for their client.

Totally. And I think that's maybe step two, you know, go in and say, you know, I'd really love to develop a relationship with you, but I realize you don't have any experience with me. So I would love to give you an experience at no charge. This is what you'll get and you need to write it down because someone will misunderstand and you do your relationship's going to go the other way. So make sure you're very clear offer these whatever four things or two things or one thing, whatever you want to do and have the result go well. And then if you say, you know, would you be, feel comfortable referring me to your clients? Here's a certificate and put on the darn thing that it's from the store, if you want. Yeah. Right. That has to be from you say it's a free session from my stores, names, trailblazers from tail blazers, then it makes them look good. Yeah.

Yeah. Cause there's so many things. A lot of people were like, you know, Oh, but I'm newer in business. So I can't bring clients to them or they already have a full, like a vet clinic they're already full. They're not taking that many new clients now anyway, like, well, you know, we have value that we can bring to businesses that aren't just bringing them new clients. We can bring value to their existing clients in a way that is easy for them. That makes them look good that their clients enjoy. So, you know, it's not always just about, I need a client. You need client. Yeah.

I don't think outside the box with stuff like that. Like every vet clinic needs art on their wall and maybe you provide it somehow. That makes it work for the both of you. But maybe not necessarily, even if they pay for it. I mean, I've done that, that other pet store I was talking about, they paid for their artwork and I'll give them a wholesale price. I said that in quotes, so made profit relax, but think outside the box and some, some stores might have photographers like mine, if a photographer comes in here, I'm like, we're good. Right. Right. It's not an insult. It's just, it is what it is.

You have a photography relationship. Totally.

Yeah. I think it's important to say too, that you should respect that. And I've never been the type of person who says, well, I'm better or I have a better price or whatever. It's like, no, I wouldn't want anyone to do that to me. So I stay out of it.

Yeah. There's a lot of businesses in most cities

Absolutely find your handful that you work with and you don't have to be everybody.

Yeah. And you shouldn't because again, if you're everybody's everything that no one is getting that moment where they're like, Oh my gosh, I have to work with this person. I don't care what it costs. Please let them choose me. Please let them say yes because yeah, nobody says that about vanilla ice cream.

Like when I was good, I guess there's probably a few people out there. I got a strawberry shake the other day. And I pouted I should have got for NOLA was my whole theory. Right there

Still some vanilla lovers. I get it. But yeah. It's yeah. It's just being, being really getting clear on being true to who you are, having good intentions and looking at these potential relationships from the business owner's point of view. See Holly, I can imagine you have people coming in, just not just pet photographers coming in to, to solicit you guys, but just a new solicitor of some kind or another like

All the time. Yeah, absolutely. And it's, it would, it would do them really good actually to do a bit of research in advanced because we get people that want to come in and sell us products that are, um, not suitable for our store at all. So yeah, it would do those companies, a lot of good to kind of look at your business in advance and see like we're a health food store for pets. Are we going to sell those low end brands? No. So it's not even, it's a waste of their time to even try because they're not a fit here. So like if any advice to photographers out there, like go on those websites and see what you have in common and bring that to the table when you're discussing with them a possible partnership. Um, I'm really into force free dog training. I have a really strong feeling about that. So I make that known on my site. And am I going to put some people off saying that? Yes. Right, right. But I have dog training facilities that train that way and they send clients to me because they trust that I'm not going to do a harsh leash correction or do something that would harm their client. Because like you, we talked about before, they don't want to refer their clients to someone it's their reputation on the line. So

Right. And having those shared values is so important because I mean, it's the shared basis for, for your business, for your ethics in your business. Not saying that anything, well, I have opinions too, I'm with you, but I'm not saying things are right or wrong, except for that.

It's fun when it's my way of thinking. I know what you mean. Yeah.

Um, you know, it's, it's just so like all of these brands, all of these businesses have usually underlying values and even the ones that we think don't like Walmart and you're like, what values do they have? Their value is inexpensive. Their value is they want the lowest price. So that is their value. So literally every business has some sort of underlying value. So trying to figure out what that is and what yours are and where they really truly mesh and not just making up where they mesh, but where they actually mesh. Because again, once you start to make connections with these people, it's not like we're trying to make connections with these multimillion dollar corporations. Their best connections are usually locally owned businesses that have possibly a few locations. You know, we're not meeting some faceless corporate person. Um, these are all owned by individual people that if you don't have a connection with that person, the relationship is not going to be very productive because that connection is at the basis of all of it.

Totally. And they're not going to refer to you if they were like, well, they were just mad. Yeah.

Right. Exactly. Because again, they have their whole business reputation too. They don't want to refer to anybody. That's a myth.

I'll be like, you know what? You can go there. They're not going to do a leash correction. I know your dog's very shy. They will use to deliver them out. They'll shape the behavior. They'll feel, you know, they'll, they'll tell people that. And then when they get all weird and passionate about you, that customer, they don't even know you. They're going to be weird and passionate about you too.

Yeah. Yeah. That's huge. That actually is a really good point of just the things that we share. And just, again, not even just with the connections, but sharing that kind of stuff on your, on your photography website of sharing your thoughts on training, because you're going to be working with that dog. And there's going to be a lot of owners out there that are very adamant about a certain, you know, of how their dog has worked with. And again, it should be in line with your values, but that, that becomes a selling point. I think so many people are scared to take that stance because they feel like it's going to turn off a lot of people, but I feel like it's going to make you go from a, Oh, this is interesting to, Oh my gosh, I have to have to work with her more so than the few people that you're going to turn off that, you know, don't believe in force free training.

Yeah. And I don't go around braiding people that do it differently. I don't go out of my way to say it's my way or the highway. But when I rebranded my site, I tried to find a way like, how can I talk about this stuff? That's not off topic cause right. I don't have a training website. I'm not an expert on training, but how can I get that in there? And that way, for me, it was through my blog. So I've done that a lot with nutrition. And um, my three top blog posts on my site that get the most hits are nutrition based and who cares if they're not my client, they give my blog.

Right. And then it makes you higher in the local SEO for people that are going to be your clients because your blog is going to have more traffic. Yeah. So many pet photographers struggle with the whole blogging thing. And I feel like they think that, Oh, if I have a blog, it means I need to put out a new content every week, every day, every whatever. But you can really use those blog pages as articles of how to prepare your client for a session or what are potential pet photographer, client's pet photography, clients Googling, like what are they looking for? What information are they looking for? And one of my favorite ways to connect with other businesses is kind of to, to get in touch with them and say, I'm highlighting, you know, local businesses on my pet photography blog. I would love to highlight your business. Can we get together and chat about, about what you do and highlight that. And then that becomes a blog post. Like if I had, you know, trailblazers there and then, uh, somebody searched for it, your site would come up first. But on that front page, somewhere down, there would be my little blog talking about it, which then if they clicked on it, they're like, Oh, they see my photography site. And it also adds an air of credibility to you. So as a business owner sure. Of course someone can write an article about me, you know, and about my business. But if you make it easy for them,

It's a terrific icebreaker. If you don't have the nerve to go in and say, Hey, I want to do this. I want to do that. Or you don't have any ideas. Do what you just said, reach out and say, I want to feature you. There's nobody on the planet that would go piss off.

Right. Especially if you make it easy for them and say, Hey, I'm willing to come in and we can do a face to face interview. I can send you some questions you can fill out, you know, via email. Like let me know how it's easiest for you. I would love to, to

Totally. And sometimes that easy question. That one simple question, please tell me how you prefer to be contacted. Because as an introvert, don't call me, please call me especially unscheduled. I'm not going to be thinking. I don't think on the spot very well. I would say, send me an email of questions. I'll get to it when I have time. And then if the store's dead, one day I can sit down and type out the answers. And that's terrific.

Yep. And if you need some images you can like, or if they're going to do it online, but you would still love to meet them in person. Maybe you offer to, Hey, you know, to go with this article, I would love to come in and just take some photos of the store. And then I'm happy to share those with you and you can use them for whatever you'd like, totally. You know? And then you get to say, hello, you get to meet face to face. And you know, this has been easy for the business owner. That's doesn't cost them anything. They're not putting their reputation out on a limb. Um, because it's just you highlighting them.

And what a bonus to walk away with a few store photos, you know, hard. It is for amateurs to photograph indoors. Right? Right. Your store look good. Put something put on Google. Google has pictures. And some stores you go to and you're like, that's garbage. And does it make their store look flattering in a few tips on how the pictures can look a little bit better. So many times I see businesses featuring their store photos with their products, a mess. I'm like, why didn't you think to meet them first? Like I get, frankly, give them that tip. Give them that little tip one. Really great tip. I read. And I can't remember where I heard it from, but it might have actually been her, our mutual quote, unquote, acquaintance, Jim Fortin. Tell somebody something they didn't know before. Trust you for life telling him that little tip just before he take pictures, straighten your stuff. Right, right. Front face, all your hands. Don't them all mishmashed

And your store will look a lot better. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you know, as much as whether we do or don't subconsciously, we still will judge a book by its cover quickly. If you're on Google business and the pictures are like, Oh, that place doesn't look very inviting. You're gonna immediately think it's dirty. It's you know, cheap it's whatever, like insert, adjective, bad adjective here, smell. Or if it were, if it's light and organized, you know, it just feels much more professional and much more inviting and you can make them look good. Make somebody look good. They're going to love you forever. Yeah, for sure. Yep. And that's really, that's the hardest part is just making that first connection. And then like I said, you start to see if you have a connection with those people and, and then a relationship can blossom and can go, you know, naturally and never be afraid just to reach out. I'm sure you probably wouldn't be upset if you know, someone, you had a relationship just sent you guys a nice little card, you know, Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, whatever, you know, like we're just a little stop bios in the neighborhood. Stop by. Here's some cookies for your staff. Like, okay, we've had a rescue reach out to us that way once. And you think that rescue wouldn't really buy somebody something, right. I guess what, since this new store opened last September, every time we have a fundraiser, guess who gets that money? Yeah. I love it. They brought or donuts. That's always possible. And now they have a friend for life. So yeah, I can definitely be bought with donuts, easy peasy. And actually I really hit it off with them because once they started to tell me their values, their particular focus is helping families that already have animals that are struggling through hard times. Oh yeah. That's fantastic. And my goal has always been, let's keep the animal in the home. So they end up in a rescue. Right. Let's let's get it, nip it in the bud right away. So I'm like, that's exactly how I feel. So I want to work with you again, shared values. You'll need here, chocolate done. Then when I get that trip to Calgary and I can finally go to bam, I'm allowed in your country again. Oh, good luck. I know, I know. Gosh, Holly, this has been so good. Thank you so much for taking the time to share all of this great insight for everyone. Gosh, we touched on a little bit of everything for everybody. There's always a good tangent thrown into my podcast, but hopefully it's still helpful, but we'll go ahead and let everybody know where they can follow you and see your amazingly adorable brand. Oh, thank you. I'm just Brindle Barry acres on Facebook with spaces and then on Instagram, Brindle Barry acres, all one word perfect site is[inaudible] dot com. Excellent. Well good. Good. Thanks again, Holly. And we will see you around the interwebs. Sounds good. Thanks for having me. Bye bye.

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