spk_0:   0:00
Welcome to Episode six of the Hair of the Dog Podcast. Today we're gonna be talking with Selina Jones from Give a Dog a Bone photography in Alberta, Canada. And we're gonna be talking about how she went from a shooting burn photographer to running a boutique business and what important changes she made in order to do that successfully. Stay tuned. I think you're going to enjoy it. Welcome to the hair of the dog podcast. If you're a pet photographer ready to make more money and start living a life by your design, you come to the right place. And now your host, Pet photographer, Travel Attics, Chocolate martini connoisseur Nicole Bigly. Hey, everybody. Nicole here. And I'm here with Selina Jones from Give a Dog a Bone Photography and Grand Prairie, Alberta, Canada. It's may be turning into springtime a little bit there. Well, I'm Selena. How are you?

spk_1:   0:54
I'm fantastic things. Nickel Not quite spring yet. We just got a double. No, it's getting cold again, but were holo

spk_0:   1:04
one day. One day, at least you had to photograph in the know. I hope you love photographing. Yeah. Love photographing in the snow. Just not the cold. I Yes. Awesome. I'm so glad that you have taken the time to join us and chat a little bit about your experience. Go ahead and tell us a little bit. How long have you been in business? Now I get all my years they, like, run together and then also seem longer and shorter all at the same time. So I honestly can't even remember. When did you start? Your business

spk_1:   1:34
s o. I started probably about seven years ago. Is when I really got into photography and decided that I kind of wanted to make something of it. Um, Yep. I probably legitimately started my business about five years ago, and, uh and really, I wanted to take it to that next level. So I was always more or less, I guess. Ah, hobbyist, you could say And, uh, when I hit the boat, the five year mark, I was like, Well, you know what? This This can be a thing like, I can actually do this. And that was when I really started investing in myself and my business and really just trying to take it to that next level.

spk_0:   2:11
Nice. Nice. So, yeah. So when you started out. You said you were kind of classifying yourself as a hobbyist. What did your business look like that? Were you doing like molecules of digital's? Were you doing products? Like, what was what was your business looking like? The beginning?

spk_1:   2:25
It was all inclusive Digital's. It was a cheap session. So, you know, I was, like, $50 a session, and I don't remember how many digitals I was giving, but I'm sure it was anywhere from 10 to 20. So, you know, I I didn't really know any different. And, uh, right. I always knew that there was There was something more like I had donated some prints, actually, the first year of my business to an auction, and they went off without a hitch, and people loved them. And that was kind of what really planned to the seed for me that, you know, people do want photos of their dogs in their home, and this could be something more so I always offered the option to print, but I didn't know how to go about it to really help my clients. And so most of my clients didn't either print through me or I just didn't convey that option to them properly. And Signe brand of them chose the digital option because it was it was easier.

spk_0:   3:21
Yeah, for sure. No, that's definitely one of the challenges. If you're doing all digital, it's like, Well, they have everything and people put off making a decision. And since they have everything, they can make that decision later. And so then they just keep putting it off. And that's one of the reasons that I feel that offering more of a full service, which doesn't mean you don't have to offer digitals. I love selling Digital's with other things, but if you're selling just digitalis, I feel like we're doing a disservice to our clients because they put off those decisions and they're like, Oh, great, I have everything. I'll print them one day and then just one day never comes. I mean, I have family pictures from when my kids were like three and five, and they're like nine and 12 now that I still haven't done an album for or you have a couple on the wall. But I'm like, Yes, insane. I I I

spk_1:   4:09
hear you. And that was one of the reasons actually that I started. You know, changing my business model is we had engagement photos done over seven years ago, and it took young three and 1/2 years before I even printed them or did anything with him. And when I finally decided like, Oh, I want prints on my wall I couldn't find the CD and eyeball, and I was Ah, now what? They're gone, you know, like so, uh, it was It was It was a moment where I was like, Oh, God, what did I do? What did I do? Like I paid for this, I, you know, wanted to remember those memories. It was the first time that I was ever able to get my fiancee now husband in front of a camera and right, they're gone. Eso Oh, they're digging. I was able to find them, But you know what? That's a feeling. I don't want my client's tohave to experience. And having gone through it myself, I really realized that, you know, I needed to give them that option. And I really need you to help guide them through it and let them know that you know, I am my own worst client. I was prime example of what could potentially happen to you. And heaven forbid, if anything was to happen to your dog, then you're going back through those e mails or, you know, cause I mean, we don't do CDs anymore. So right, right. If you're going back through those emails trying to find those galleries, galleries on existence. And I know some photographers don't keep archives of digital's. And then next thing you know, you know they're gone and there's literally no way of getting them back.

spk_0:   5:37
Yeah, yeah. Where they think they're safe on their hard drive. But they don't. They don't understand the perils of hard drives like photographers. D'oh! Yet And that one copy is really, like none. Because all hard drives will fail eventually. Exactly. So, yeah, that's definitely Ah, important lesson to learn. And you don't want your client have to go through

spk_1:   5:57
know it? I can I Can you think that they're sorry? No, go ahead. Go ahead. Oh, I wouldn't say I can see that they're now printed on my wall and they're in my living room. So you Yea, for that,

spk_0:   6:07
But absolutely. Absolutely. So what did your business transition? Look like I imagine going from, you know, shoot Burn Thio more all inclusive could be a little overwhelming. I mean, I know I started out as well. I was actually pretty lucky. I started out with my first couple clients is just an all inclusive, like $100. Let me just do a session Here's digital files but that I was pregnant with my daughter, my oldest at the time. And so I knew that I was, you know, in a have her and then a couple months off and really start my business the following year like she was born in August. So starting after the New Year, and I just happened to look out to find out about imaging and W A. M p p A. And I went to imaging with a friend of mine and learned about this whole like in person sales product thing. Otherwise I definitely would have gone down the Oh, no, I'm This is profitable. I have no cost of goods sold, even though it's spending 10 hours of the session and making $100 we're good here. Um, it opened my eyes to this whole other way of doing business So I feel like I was pretty lucky in that. I really, for the most part, started by business with products. So tell us what that was like with the transition from going from an all inclusive model to moving overto more in person sales in product based model. To

spk_1:   7:24
put it, frankly, it was quite terrifying. Um, yeah, I imagine. Yeah. And I mean, it was kind of one of those things of that self doubt kind of kicked it in, and I didn't really know how how it was gonna happen and how it was gonna go off. But I just started kind of putting it out there a little bit more. You know, when I finally did get the prince of from my engagement session, you know, I I celebrated that with my clients and, you know, look what I did. And and do you have prints on your walls and, you know, it started to slowly transition. I can't say that. I just, you know, woke up one day and was like, Okay, I'm doing it this way, and we're gonna roll with it. It took me probably about a year or so before I was like, Okay, that's this Changes completely. Let's go at it in a different manner. And once I fully committed to it and, you know, trusted that I could make it work, then that was what L start is seeing it actually payoff in the longer. And so it was definitely it was definitely difficult. But, you know, it's it's doable. And I think we get into the mindset where well, this is what I've always offered. So my safe, Yeah, I gave my clients know it and they're not gonna not gonna want to do it. And it's like, Well, no, if if you offer it to them and you give them the option, you know that I do have some kinds, even still to this day, that don't want prints, and that's totally fine. You know, it's yet they either get something small for their desk or they just pay for digital package. But I'm also priced at the point now where if I sell a digital package, then I'm not walking away with $4 in my pocket, right? I'm making more than somebody that's flipping burgers, it McDonald's and making more than minimum wage. That's really what set the fire under my butt is that I'd have the nerve to make more than minimum wage. You know there's there's nothing wrong with working at McDonald's, but if they're getting paid like our minimum wage is $15 an hour, you know, if they're gonna be that, why can I not expect to make that turn that in my business?

spk_0:   9:23
Absolutely. I mean because, well, you know, we have expensive gear. We it takes time. I mean, nobody comes out of the womb and their professional amazing photographer like corruption. All of the incredible photographers that you look up Thio has started somewhere and had this long learning process where they invest in education or they and, you know, I just spent years practicing so that time should be compensated for us because not everybody can do what we d'oh just because we have put in the time in the effort Thio grow our skills to do that. So 100% we deserve to be compensated fairly for that. And you know, it really comes down to us believing that it can happen. And I hear a lot of times to happens to me sometimes to where friends would be like, Oh, man, I would love to have you photographed my dog And you're like, Oh, my God, I don't wanna have to tell you my price, and it's because you're gonna get some saying on and and And I hear so many people that thankfully, it wasn't my case Where? But we're family members Or maybe like, are saying that to them, you know where friends might be like Oh, my gosh, what? And but family members might not believe that that they can. They can do this, that the people actually charge these prices. Did you feel like you had support from for near people? And when you are making those changes,

spk_1:   10:43
I think it was kind of half and half. Yeah, My mom has always been a huge supporter of me, and, uh, you know, she's She's always told me that I could charge a $1,000,000 people would pay for it. And, you know, I think is one of your

spk_0:   10:58
like Mayan would pay that much. Yeah, your mom thinks

spk_1:   11:03
so, and even even my husband, I mean, it took him a little bit. He's never really been fully involved with Michael of the pricing all right of my business, but he's seen and that there was a change in me. There was a change in my business when I started doing in person sales and having clients come to my home. You know, he obviously he noticed that I was happier and I was enjoying my myself more. And, you know, that was kind of when his support started to come in and he realized that, you know, we actually she's doing this, but he's he's never been somebody that's ever told me you can't do it or you're crazy for sure, you know? And you know, he's had people that have even said to him, you know, like, well, actually, no charge last she'd be busier, right? Right? And he's like, Well, just she's doing it, you know, like,

spk_0:   11:48
what? Do you rather Yeah, what, do you rather work less and earn Justus much than work twice as much.

spk_1:   11:54
And it was a couple years ago where I decided that throughout the summer I didn't want to work weekends like I still do work a full time job, so my weekends are very precious to me. So it was something where I said, Okay, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm in the summertime. Then I'm not booking weekends. And obviously there's the, uh, me sir, You know, certain circumstances, but we enjoy our weekends. We like to go camping. We like to go calling. So that was something that was really about able to me and being able to offer this business was my client. It gave me that freedom.

spk_0:   12:26
Yeah, absolutely. And I think people are scared to do that for fear that if I'm not available all the time, the no no book me or people that will just go somewhere else. But if they like what you're offering and understand the value of what you're offering, they will book around your schedule. I think that's it's a really big step for people to dio. And I wanted to just touch on one other point to about the family or close friends that maybe you're thinking or ever say to people that Oh, my gosh, no one's gonna pay that. You're crazy. And they are often doing that from a place of love because they don't want to see you fail, and they don't understand the business they don't understand the cost to go into this. And they they just they just don't have an experience with it. So they're trying to protect protect you often. When? When they act that way. So with your business. Now, what type of guess? What type of photography I know, But ever the people don't you love to shoot, you know more on location, studio, look, type of sessions. Kind of make up your bread and butter for your business.

spk_1:   13:28
Definitely. Oh, door sessions. Yep. I love using the elements to, you know, really feature the dogs. I love that. They kind of They just become their cells and their quirky and, you know, they do silly things. Like our sessions, um, last weekend to go. Yeah, I guess it would have been last weekend. You know, there was one dog I just absolutely loved. The stolen was jumping into it and shoving her face and there and popular. It was completely covered. And, you know, when she's looking at all the snow off her face, and it was just so fun to see them happy. And that's truly where I love cap from dogs is in their element and I do like studio work as well. I don't have a dedicated space to it, but when I get the opportunities to do it, there's something about just a clean, classic portrait you know, makes my heart explode. And I always see other studio photographers, and I'm like, Damn, I love that like it's is so fantastic. But then yet when I get outside of the dogs and I'm working with, um it's just that's me, that's what I I lay out love being outdoors. I love working with the elements. There's just something about that that just really may

spk_0:   14:32
not know I under I understand for sure. I don't do it on a studio. And like, I feel like if I was doing studio all the time, I would get bored of whatever my studio style waas where outside. There's always something new to explore, and I feel like the dogs get to really be themselves. Of course, you can still capture great personality in the studio and great studio photographers. D'oh! But being outside, they get to be more active. They get to be in the elements. You get to capture the scene. Yeah, and you have some beautiful scenery up there. I feel like you're here in Charlotte. Everything I've been looking for places tohave a, um, like silhouette. It is so hard to find, because everything is just tall, green trees, like it's so forced and thick, which Pittsburgh was, too. But we had a lot more hills like we were closer to the mountains. So we definitely had way more hills and way more places to find that kind of stuff. And it's also Super Boy Sonny or hear that I was in Pittsburgh, so I found myself, like almost having toe start to change how I'm shooting a little bit just because of the different that different things around here in the different, uh, the different lighting situations, which I just find really, really fascinating way adapt to our environment.

spk_1:   15:47
Oh, definitely. I mean, it's It's very flat here, you know. Everyone thinks it, it's not, but yeah, we definitely have a lot of Perry's, but we do have a few locations where we can go and, you know, we've bought some hills and stuff, but definitely no no mountains, and there's a shortage of trees and a lot of places, but I'm pretty fortunate that I have a few different spots that I can go like. We have the river, we've got a forest location, We have spines, goto open prairies, and we have spots where we have little hills and can create something quick stir in the scenery. So, yeah, I I definitely think it's it's good, but it's still a challenge to create images within the scenery that is different. And I'm always looking. Every time I go out, I'm looking for something different. And so let's go over to this spot like I was shooting at one location. Similar. Oh gosh, probably four years And, you know, it was like, Let's go a little further up the trail And I found some really fantastic spots that I never had, you know, two minutes up the trail. But I just I never really took the times and like what was comfortable here, right?

spk_0:   16:51
We all fall into that. Yeah,

spk_1:   16:54
I think even if we're at those locations that we love, like go for a little bit more of a walk and just see what you can find and you might be amazing. You might be disappointed, but I actually tried shooting downtown. It's our downtown's not super pretty. Um, yeah. You know, I see lots of people that do urban photos and they, you know, they have these beautiful big buildings and doors and, like, stunning and we are down. How is just not anything super crazy? And so I I attempted I took some rescue dogs downtown and I was like, having to do this and, you know, we got some good shots, but it definitely is something I need to explore a little bit more. But it was Ah, it was a huge challenge. I must admit,

spk_0:   17:34
Yeah, now. And it's it's different than when all of a sudden you're like, Wait, I'm used to working in this scene. And now I'm here like Holy cow, this feels very, very different. Um, yeah, I I love love, urban shooting just for the different textures and colors and everything. Pittsburgh was like an urban shooting mecca heaven, because there are so many, like, really cool architecture, like cool old doors from like Carnegie Days and like steel magnet baron days. Just so, money cool buildings were down here. It's like, Oh, ability is 20 years old. We better bulldoze it and build a new one. Like, you know, that one actually had character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but they're still like they're still like, Oh, that's a cool texture on that wall or, you know, it's just you have to work a little harder for it. It's not as obvious in some of the other places, but yeah, that's a great point, though, about even if it's a place you've been for a long time, and you feel like you've I've shot everything here. I like to try to make it a not a rule, but a guideline to try to every time I shoot somewhere, even if it's a place I shoot all the time to try to find one new new to me kind of shot or angle or perspective from that location. And it may or may not work, and I think a lot of times, especially when we're earlier in our journey and where, you know, still got of getting comfortable on this whole like, am I going to deliver a decent images? What's the client thinking of me? We get nervous to try new things, but I encourage all of you guys out there like take a breath. Slow down. Give it a thought. It's okay to say to your client. Hey, hang on here one second. I'm gonna go check on something over here. I often do that because number one I don't want to, like, make them walk all the way over somewhere from not sure what the light's gonna look like or what things look like over there. I'll often be like, just hang out. Chill out for a minute. I'm gonna run over here and see what it looks like. I'll be back, and it's okay to even test something I sometimes say, Hey, you know. Okay, go ahead, put. Get here. Let's system I take a shot or two. I'm like out. No, I'm not liking. This isn't gonna work here. Let's keep going. Like it's okay to say this isn't working right here. Let's go

spk_1:   19:46
over here. Yeah, I don't love their No, let's do it again. You know what? Right over here. Yeah, I've definitely been there myself, and I was surprised myself at a shoot one time. I was like, you know, let's go into this bush a little bit too nice. You know, I said to my client like, do you mind? Just don't get poked in the eye. Please buy stick. You know what you're thinking, but, you know, let's let's go in here and explore bit And we didn't have to go very far off the trail, but the texture in the trees And you know, the way that the grass was laying and just everything. And I got down really low, and it just created this whole different perspective. And again, like I had shot there tons of times and I had always loved the images I got from there, but they were always the same. And, uh, you know now, like every time I go back there, Mike, get in the bush, Let's go where we owe. Try this, and it's, you know, it took took a couple of seconds to go in there, and the same thing I let my client is. No, let the dogs sniff. Give the dog a break because I think that's super important to we we get. So he's I caught up in trying to perform for our clients and making sure that they they think we know what we're doing, and we don't always coming um, right, but

spk_0:   20:55
And we think we think in our heads like, Oh, if I breathe for 30 seconds, they're going to realize that I'm a fraud

spk_1:   21:02
and a one giving those dogs that break to can can really make or break a session. You know, absolutely. We we expect dogs to go out, and typically, when their owners take them out, they're walking there sniffing, you know, they're they're moving. And here we are. We're like, stand there and stay and look pretty And look at me. The crazy person that's making all these weird noises, you know, And the dogs, the dogs, we confused. I like what's happening here. Is still giving them that 23 minutes to just decompress and sniff and and do what they're designed to do. Can really I find, make or break a session? Like I've told clients, you know, I'd go for a walk. Go take 5 10 minutes, go for a walk, you come back. You know, the dogs are just so much more relaxed. They're more focused, and it's easier to work with them, resulting in better images and a better time for my clients.

spk_0:   21:54
Yeah, absolutely. 100% agree, especially with your clients now, Like what? Types of marketing things have been working well for you. Where do you tend to find the clients that you having your business today?

spk_1:   22:05
So I've had a really good success with using Facebook, actually, and I would see a majority of my clients have been through Facebook or, you know, they're they're friend knows who I am, and they recommend me or say, Hey, have you Chuck dote should engage in? I think that's that's been a big thing. But getting oh into the community has definitely helped me making connections with small business owners, different pet businesses and getting involved with my local rescue. So my business started because I started volunteering for a rescue and started taking images of their dogs wanting to help promote them and help them get adopted. So rescue is definitely a huge part of my business, and I almost feel like I owe it to get back to rescues, because I don't think I would be where I am today without um s Oh, yeah, that's been a probably one of my biggest marketing partners, I would say has been working with them and they have a huge platform as well, and definitely donating two different fundraisers and charities. Finding those clients within even is melting into different business owners has has been huge for me. They definitely know lots of people, you know, Realtors and rumors. It's definitely you have to put yourself out there in order to get that return. But I think the turning point through me was just once I started offering it to my client's. Most people were like, Oh, yeah, I know. This is great. I'm glad you do that. You know, on one of my very first clients, when I transitioned, she had actually said to me that what previous photographers she was working with, she went to. I think she said, cost over Wal Mart and got her photos printed, and she spent like, $300 to print all these images. And when she got them back, she hated them, you know? Ah, that broke my heart because I like you, went and spent up $300 which to a lot of people, that's a that's a good chunk of money and right, got nothing, nothing out of it. And you know that was just really heartbreaking to me. And, you know, she was said to me, I'm so glad that you offer this and that you stand out in your products because I don't have to worry about it. And I don't have to take the time out of it Out of my day to decide whether it's gonna look better on the canvas printer in acrylic print door If I just want a small print or a big print and you know that, Yeah, Once he started once I started offering that, and that was kind of when I realized that I was doing a disservice to my clients all the years prior,

spk_0:   24:35
right? Yeah, and I feel like the pet industry the pet photography industry, is just coming around to like When I did, I did families and pets for the 1st 5 years of my business or so and towards the end, as a family photographer, I would get a lot of clients that had done some used somebody else that was shooting burn, and they were burned by it. Their images were not what they expected. The print quality, because they had to print themselves, was not what they expected the lack of service was challenging. They didn't get their images quickly. Ah, whole host of issues. Um, so then they decided. Okay, you got, we pay for I'm gonna invest in an actual photographer. That yeah, stance we had there were creates beautiful products and guarantees those products. And so that was happening a lot in the family photography. And I'm noticing that started to happen a little bit more now in pet photography because as the pet photography market starts to become Maur, I don't want to say saturated is I don't like that word. But there's Maurin more entry level people offering like, ah, an all inclusive price that maybe, you know, it's just not It's not the service that the clients were expecting or the quality that they're expecting. They then will turn around and say, Okay, I'm ready to invest in a higher level of service, so I'm starting to see that a little bit more in the pet industry. So there's definitely so many people that the value that is just finding them.

spk_1:   26:02
Yeah, and I think to a lot of people think Well, I'm gonna you know, thes family photographers or wedding photographers or newborn photographers that are like, You know what? Oh, like there's there's some money to be made in pet. So I'm gonna offer pet sessions now, you know, innit? Yeah, If that's what you want to do that I mean all the power to you. But from the client perspective, yes, that person's offering pet sessions. But when you actually go to somebody that specializes specifically and pet, it's a whole different ball game. And you're right. I didn't photograph people for probably about three years. I was like, No, I'm not doing it. I don't want people in the photo dog or nothing like, And you know that over the years I'm like, Okay, well, this is kind of crazy. And, you know, people love being in photos with their pets. And so it took me a little bit, too, to realize that. And then it was a whole new, like learning game for me is like, Okay, well, now I gotta put people in my photos. And how do I pose them so that they look very good and it's pottering and all this job. You know, all this information that I just had no idea about, and that's when I was like Okay, well, these family photographers, they've got it made. They just got to stick a dog in there. But it's not that easy. You know, I think people think that it's going to be in easy way to make money and an easy thing to market their business. But once they get into it, and once they start realizing there's more to it and dogs don't always cooperate. So yeah, you

spk_0:   27:29
know, you definitely quotes Yeah, and you definitely to photograph to do a pet photography, like you have to love the animals because, I mean, you have to have patients just period, no other, you know? And if if people are doing it just because they think it's an easy open niche in the market yeah, they're not gonna last because they're going to get to frustrated. I I had a session once where I needed I needed this distinct. It was a snow session. The only time she could do it was like noon and usually in Pittsburgh, that wouldn't have been a problem. So it was always overcast. But that day was like brilliant full sun and like, you know, snow on the ground and blue sky. And I'm like I'm needing assistance. I need to use a light. So she came. She was a newborn and ta family photographer and child photographer. And the session she's like, I don't know how you have the patience for this and, like, I don't know how you have the patience for newborns exactly. Like past. No, thank you. Like, Wanna wait and sit here for three hours till this baby falls asleep? No, I don't have time for that. I

spk_1:   28:35
know from experience. I actually collaborated with a newborn photographer here in town with one of my clients, and I was like, Wow, this is the hold of motive and and it's hot. Thank you. They're standing around warm. I was dying. I'm like, how do you go every day? And I like being a holy man, you know? And it was just It was a very different ball game, but it was It gave me a whole different perspective. And, you know, it gave her different perspective working with me, and it was really neat to see, but yeah, patience is number one. I hear that for my clients, all the time, you know. And one thing, too is, is teaching your clients as well tohave that patients because we have very high expectations of our dogs and we go out and the dogs don't, you know, sit or they don't listen and our clients get frustrated. So I think even you know about decompression Walk is good for our clients as well. To take that five minute breather, come back and be like, Okay, let's try this again, because if your clients getting frustrated and your dark, the dog's getting frustrated and it's just gonna be a whole world of hurt.

spk_0:   29:39
I absolutely, and I always make sure to let people know during our precession consultation that look, you're you're going to think your dog is not behaving as well as they could be and that it's fine. I don't want you to get stressed about it. If we want the dog with sit and he stands, I'll usually say, That's fine. It really is fine. I don't want you to stress about it, and then you know same thing when we're at the session. If we set it up in a sit and and you know the dog stands up, then it's like sitting like Nope, it's find their goods. It's a constant a concert conversation of Hey, it's okay. The dog's just being dog. I was tell them the dogs only job is to be a dog. And I promise I am getting the shots that I need, the shots that you're going to love because I think that's what they get nervous of is that Oh, my gosh, I've spent all this money and my dogs are cooperating. And there's no way that these images are gonna look like what I hope they're gonna look like because my dogs being a jerk and oh, my God, Sit, sit, sit, sit, sit at

spk_1:   30:33
that. Every dog that's on her well, thing might be a model. And they must be Rick dogs because my dog would never

spk_0:   30:39
do that. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, my goodness. This has been an awesome conversation. Shelly and I just wanted to ask, like, touch on one more thing, which is, you know, for people that are maybe in that transition of trying to figure out like, Oh, my gosh, I'm here. I'm loving the actual photography side. But, you know, how do I make this business more profitable. I'm working too much. Maybe I want to move from all inclusive. Two more product based business. What was it during your transition time that you feel like helped you continue on that helped you kind of face that that doubt and continue to persevere and build your business to one of this Today

spk_1:   31:20
I would have to see that it was finding you and the hair of the dog community. It was huge for me to to be able to see that there was a whole world of had photographers out there and that this was a real job. You know, I I never know. I never really thought much of it until I found other people that that offer this and you have very successful businesses. And I think that was kind of where I was like Okay, you know, we we can do this and I can make it happen. And then the biggest thing for me was just getting out of my own weight. Yeah, like, stop doubting yourself and and just let it happen. But you have to work your butt off for it because nothing in life comes easy And you know, they everyone always says good things come to those who wait, And I think that's a crock. Good things come to those things come to those who work there, but often who put themselves out there and And don't be afraid of failure. You know, I've Yeah, have redone my my pricing and my sale structure and everything. Oh, gosh. Probably over 10 times if I find out brutally on it. And you know, there's there's still things about it that I'm like I don't like or I want to change. And, you know, if I've offered one of the biggest things people are always like, Well, I don't know what to offer. What products, you know, What are people gonna love and right, right? That's it. It's hard. And, you know, we have to invest a lot of money into our business to get those samples and to bring those in and show people what we have to offer. But I have products that I brought in that I love, and I haven't sold one you right. So I was like, Well, what am I doing wrong here? You and me? Well, maybe if I approach it in a different matter, but it's no. It just wasn't something that people liked. I liked. They did it far, you know it, right, the trial and error sort of thing. But I don't know, I I just I've completely revamped everything and taken off everything that didn't work. You know, I gave it a good solid earlier, and you know it. It's okay to go through that transition is okay, toe offer something and to never sell it. And if that's the case, I was fine. And sometimes you have to keep those things on your pricing list in order to encourage people to toe purchase something else. And absolutely yes,

spk_0:   33:39
that's like a super high end album or something that makes your middle album like a no brainer that What about that higher end piece that people would be like, Oh, I don't really want to spend $1500 but if they see 3000 and they're like, Oh, well, that was like 15 100 did that? Yeah,

spk_1:   33:55
offering a cover photo on an album, you know where you get get kind of the best of both worlds, I found. That was a huge turning point for me and I I have always loved albums. I've always thought they were absolutely such a wonderful keepsake. And so I was like, I want to offer albums. This is gonna be fantastic. This me great. You know, all my clients were gonna love them, and I had an album, but I didn't sell one. I was like, Yeah, OK, why? This is, you know? Yeah. Why, right? So when I kind of took a step back and I started looking at it and it's like, Okay, well, maybe I'm not offering it properly to my clients and, you know, So once I kind of changed my once again, changed my pricing structure and change the way that I offered it, more clients were like, Oh, an album. I love those No. One. I started offering an album that has, ah, photo cover. And that was a huge turning point for me is that they were like, Well, I could have it on display. But then I also get all of these images. And so it was, you know, maybe it's taking away a little bit from the Waller, but the way if you structured properly, then you you can get the best of both worlds. So having an album was just an ad on or, you know, secondary to their Waller. It definitely it creates a lot of huge value there for clients because they get all these images. But like I said, they get the best of both worlds, and I would say every third or yeah, it's every third client usually purchases an album, which is great because I love you. I want my client's toe have them and I think they're fantastic. So

spk_0:   35:25
that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, I think it's so critical that we always look at our business, every piece of it, from the marketing to the pricing to the sale structure to all of it as an experiment. And, you know, it's not a failure. It's just a experiment. You're going to see what works, what doesn't work, what you can tweak. And, you know, the beauty of running our own business is we have the power to to change whatever we want whenever we want. You don't have to take it through, you know, corporate red tape. We can just make that change and a failure is really just an opportunity to start again with more information or more data for your experiment. Thio see what works and what might work better and not to be afraid. Toe test things out

spk_1:   36:05
yet. And don't be afraid to invest in yourself. Yeah, that was a big thing for me. Is, you know, investing in my education, investing in, you know, even even gear. You're right. It's not to say that you can't create amazing images, was just one lens and and, you know, an entry level camera. But when I started investing into more professional greed equipment, I was like, Oh, this is a whole new different ball game and, you know, it really changed how I shoot in the images that I was able to create and just having that education and focusing more on the business side of things and how I wanted my business to operate and again like hair of the dog has been huge in that sense and the academy and having you know your business courses and opening up the whole entire world to me that I didn't even realize was out there the barker retreat, something that I thought for Hogan four years I sat myself there was no way that I could ever do it. It was too expensive, you know, I could never afford that. I you know, I just always put it on the back burner. And once I stepped out of my own way and I started telling myself, But I can do it. I can make that happen. I can save the money. You know, I I can go get my passport. I was trying to get a passport for 10 years, but nothing ever gave me the motivation to go and do it. Because why would I should I can't afford to go anywhere. And yeah, you know, that was, I think, Well, I mean, that was only half a year ago. But once that you once I realized that if I stopped telling myself I can't do it and start telling myself I can It opens up a whole world of opportunity. So absolutely, you're doubting yourself. Stop school. One of Heather's pep talks. Then you got amazing. You know, I every time I talk with Heather, every time I listen to the video of hers, I'm just I feel like superwoman on Lee. Let's go. I 11 11 She's fantastic. It's just one of those things that if you stop, stop doubting. Go try it. Yeah, No, If you don't make it this year than find I had cost every every year Facebook memories. Oh, I wish I could go do this. And I wish I could do this. And yeah, but, you know, I I didn't even happen. And there's there's no reason that anybody else in this world can't make it happen. If that's truly what you want

spk_0:   38:27
for sure, Yeah, I think it was Henry Ford. That said, if you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Um, because whatever. Whatever, we we put ourselves in a box, you know, it's nobody. Nobody else is doing it to us. We do it ourselves with what we're thinking. And, yeah, I think one of the most empowering questions that we can always ask yourself if there's something that you want that maybe you're not seeing how you condone it at this time, instead of saying I wish I could do that or I'll never be able to do that toe, ask yourself, How can I make this happen? How can I do that? even if it's not right now. But But by asking yourself, how can I do that? It just changes what's happened in our brain. And it starts to look for solutions to the problem instead of just saying, Yeah, you're right. You're right. You can't do that. Forget it. Well,

spk_1:   39:10
you know, I got a huge difference. Even like my dad. Um, completely un photography related, But he wanted to quit smoking. And, yeah, he woke up one day, and he's like, I'm done. I don't want to do it anymore. I have Awesome. I'm over it. You know, it's a waste of money, everything else. And, you know, he was about two weeks in, and he called me and he goes, I'm not even craving. And I said, What do you mean? That's fantastic. Yeah. He says I don't even feel like I want one. And I said, You know why he goes, Why? Because you changed your minds that you told yourself that this is not what you wanted to do. You told yourself you were done with it that you didn't want, you know? And you told your body that in your body believed you, so yeah, you know, I'm gonna keep putting it in the forefront of your mind because you've already put that behind you and said, No, I'm done with you. I'm moving on. So, yeah, it's a huge thing, and I I never believed it until I did it. And it's kind of one of those things where you're you preach it and you're like, you know, just change your minds that just do it. But right, right, it's It's kind of it's more complicated than obviously, And I'm sure people listening to this are gonna be like, Well, it's not that easy. And but it truly is, you know, get up every day. And, you know, like I know people that have sticky notes all over their mirrors. Everyone, you know, they say certain things themselves help fill them up. And I don't have that. But every day that I get up, it's like, Okay, what can I What can I change? And how can I change my way of thinking? Or if you're presented with a problem or a challenge, look at it in a different perspective and see how you can change and look at the good, even if it's a bad situation. Look at the good in that. Dead. So you can learn and take from it and either, you know, make it so that it doesn't happen again. Or, you know, just taking a girl from it. Yeah.

spk_0:   40:53
Absolutely. Yep. Yeah, I agree with all of this so much on the logic being here.

spk_1:   41:02
Oh, sorry. What's that? Oh, they don't have to me. A couple of years ago, I wouldn't have been anywhere. Yeah. Okay, so it

spk_0:   41:10
is funny. It's funny how quickly these do you start to go down this little rabbit hole of like, Oh, wait, that works. No, wait. What else works? Holy cow. Look at the power that I have just between my ears. Yeah, with things that I say to myself, Um, because I think we went to we definitely tend to be the hardest on ourselves. And the person that stands in our way the most is definitely our own brain and our own thoughts. And, you know, it's really just choosing thio. Think other thoughts. It's really a simple is that it's not easy. It's simple, but it's a practice. It's one of those things where you start to do it, and then you'll slip up and you're like, Oh, wait, no, that's no, I don't want to think like that. Let's rewrite, reframe and think about this. So, yeah, just takes practice. But thank you again for taking the time to chat with us. I know everyone's gonna love hearing your story. And, um, yeah, I hope you have a great supreme and, um, and yeah, and hopefully spring come soon for you.

spk_1:   42:08
I very much hope so. I'm getting sick and tired of putting on my winter boots and wiping off my truck every morning. But it'll be here for a boat in a cup. That it'll be when Jerry got

spk_0:   42:20
man. I need really crazy. All right. Well, have a good week, Selina. And thank you again for joining us.

spk_1:   42:29
Thank you, Nicole. It was an honor. Have a great day.

spk_0:   42:32
Thanks for listening to this episode of Hair of the Dog podcast. If you enjoy this show, please take a minute to leave a review. And while you're there, don't forget to subscribe. So you don't miss our upcoming episode. One last thing if you are ready to dive into more resource is head over to our website at www dot hair of the dog academy dot com. Thanks for being a part of this pet photography community.