Nicole Begley (00:00)
This might be, actually is, the most important episode that I have ever recorded. If you are here, you are going to want to listen to this because I'm telling you, it is life changing. My good friend Tracy Goodwin is back on the podcast and we are talking about voice masks and the subconscious decisions that people make about you within seconds of meeting you, of hearing your voice, and how all of these subconscious thoughts that we have

are driving that voice that we don't even know about it. So in this episode, we are gonna help you create more authenticity, more connection with everyone you encounter, which is going to lead to more clients, more sales, and just all of those great

So no matter whether you're a professional pet photographer or a hobbyist, if you interact with people at all, you're going to want to listen to this episode. Stay tuned.

Nicole Begley (00:51)
I'm Nicole Begley, a zoological animal trainer turned pet and family photographer. Back in 2010, I embarked on my own adventure in photography, transforming a bootstrapping startup into a thriving six-figure business by 2012. Since then, my mission has been to empower photographers like you, sharing the knowledge and strategies that have helped me help thousands of photographers build their own profitable businesses. I believe that achieving $2,000 to $3,000 sales is your fastest route to six-figure businesses;

that any technically proficient photographer can consistently hit four figure sales. And no matter if you want photography to be your full-time passion or a part-time pursuit, profitability is possible. If you're a portrait photographer aspiring to craft a business that aligns perfectly with the life you envision, then you're in exactly the right place. With over 350,000 downloads, welcome to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast.

Nicole (01:50)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Begley, and I am so excited to have a returning guest with us, none other than Tracy Goodwin, who was our guest way back in episode 128, when we were talking about the secret to converting more leads, which was like the subconscious drivers that people hear when they hear your voice. I mean, it gets crazy.

So if you haven't listened to that one, we're going to link it to the show notes because you're definitely going to want to listen to that one too. But Tracy, welcome back to the podcast.

Tracy Goodwin (02:23)
Thanks, I'm so happy to be here. I love being a returning guest.

Nicole (02:27)
No, I love it. I love having you back. my gosh, we work together. So this last podcast was 2022, February, 2022. And then I can't remember if I worked with you right before or right after that. It might've been right around then. And then you came back to speak at the mastermind I'm part of just this past November and you have a whole new set of research and it was so fascinating. And I'm like, my gosh, you have to come back to the podcast.

But before we get into all that, for the people that haven't listened to that previous episode yet, can you give them a little bit of insight as to what you do? Because like voice coach is not what you do, but it's the only thing in the English language that can be close enough to kind of describe it.

Tracy Goodwin (03:12)
telling you that's the hardest question. The first question, what do you do? And I always joke, I'll say, well, I hear voices. But you know, that doesn't really, that freaks people out too. I am called a voice coach, but there's absolutely nothing that I do that is like typical voice coaching. We think about slow down, speak up, practice. That's not it. What I have created

Nicole (03:14)
Ha ha!

you

Tracy Goodwin (03:38)
is called the psychology of the voice. And basically what I do, I guess if I was gonna put it in, try to concise sentence or two, I approach sounds that are in the voice that are actually working against you. I can hear seven layers of sound and there are multiple sounds in every voice that are protective sounds, are sounds of covering up wounds.

those sounds are actually working negatively in the subconscious of the listener. So I go in and I remove those sounds, I remove why they're in there, and then the result is you increase your impact and income by 30 to 90%.

Nicole (04:23)
Wow. Wow. And so the things that are creating these could be somebody telling you as a three year old, she or too loud. It's too much. like just even like an one offhand comment from like childhood could create these. Correct.

Tracy Goodwin (04:38)
That's right, I'm a big researcher. So if it comes out of my mouth, I've researched it or I've studied the research on it. And one of my very first research studies determined that one phrase before we're five can determine how we're gonna use our voice the rest of our life. Now I went back in and did that research again a couple of years ago and now it's down to two. In fact, the first trade we make, the first mask we put on,

Nicole (04:55)
Wow.

Tracy Goodwin (05:07)
is I'm gonna sacrifice my fullest expression because mom just said, why are you so much? I'm gonna sacrifice that fullest expression and I'm gonna be what you want me to be. And that happens before, you know, it's all subconscious. It's all going down subconscious. But yeah, it's at a very early age and then you live a life of bosses and relationships and.

Joe the doorman and the neighbor that yells at you all the time. And every phrase impacts us and every phrase alters how we use our voice. So we have layers and layers of protection because of what's spoken to us.

Nicole (05:45)
And we can use a different voice in different situations. we, will we sometimes have, I mean, we might have this overarching mask that's covering all the time, but then will we also just try to change, I'll talk to this person differently than this person, than this person. Will we be kind of shifting in and out of all these different things regularly? Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin (06:05)
All day long,

all day long. I mean, at any minute right now, now I'm not gonna do this because I know you and I'm not gonna put a mask on, but I could be on a show, your listeners could be on a show or they could be with a client or a prospect and they go, this guy, this guy's important. All right, I'll put my professional voice on because I'm gonna be real professional on Nicole's show because she's a big deal. So I'm gonna be professional. And you know,

Nicole (06:25)
you

Tracy Goodwin (06:32)
We don't even recognize that we're doing it, but we're in this constant state of, I've got to be something I'm not. Because surely what I, yeah, because we've been told our whole life will be anything but you. Don't do that. Don't be that. Why are you so much? Why are you so loud? Why are you so funny? Okay, let me alter and alter and alter. And it happens the most on introduce yourself, which isn't that funny.

Nicole (06:41)
Mm-hmm. For acceptance.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (07:00)
Let me tell

you about me. Okay, that'll bring out the worst in a voice. Let me sell you something. That's a given. Let me name the price. That's a given. And then anytime we feel like, they're important. they're a big deal. they're intimidating. they don't like me. Whatever we've decided in our head about these people, them, we're probably gonna put on a different voice.

Nicole (07:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And as you know, this whole community is photographers. So we are selling our art, which is like so much personal. Cause I have so many people that maybe sold widgets and they're like, I had no problem selling the widgets, but now I'm selling my art. So the getting the nose and the rejections feels like a personal attack on you.

Tracy Goodwin (07:38)
Mmm.

Nicole (07:47)
And so, and then there's money involved and a lot of people don't realize what goes into this and what the costs are to run an actual profitable business. So people are so scared to share the price. And so it is a perfect storm for all of these things. So you guys, if there is ever a podcast to relisten to, it's number 128 and this one, period done. It affects every single one of us.

Tracy Goodwin (08:12)
Well, that's point, I think, of the whole conversation in my mind, Nicole, is people aren't even thinking about this. I'm thinking about the offer, I'm thinking about how do I talk about it, I'm thinking about all these things, and those things are important, but nobody is really thinking about, wait a minute, they're going to decide everything. They're going to decide if they're gonna buy in seconds, based on my recent research. They're going to decide if they trust you in seconds.

Nicole (08:19)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (08:41)
All that's coming from the voice. They are literally looking for an experience that is as unique as your artistry. And that uniqueness, the experience they're looking for, that's what authenticity is. And it comes from sound. And so, but what do do? We become chameleon-like. What do they want me to be? I gotta shut this down. And you're right, there's so much. There's so much that we have to work through.

Nicole (08:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (09:09)
taking on a no. A no is not about you. there's so many things we can do vocally to make that no a yes. Connection and authenticity are two pieces of it. But I think that one of the things that you tell me if this is accurate, but people struggle to own their greatness. This is, I'm so proud of this work because we're so afraid we're gonna be arrogant. And so we...

Nicole (09:13)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (09:36)
We minimize vocally. Yeah, yeah, I do this kind of work. Yeah, it's no big deal. Yeah, well that makes me excited about wanting to hire you. You know? And we're so afraid to shine.

Nicole (09:41)
Mm-hmm.

Thank

my gosh, I think this goes all the way back. Even if you were in a family that wanted to put that spotlight on you, just society and even in school and everything else, you never wanted to be too much. You didn't want to.

You didn't want to show that something was easy for you to make somebody else feel bad. You didn't want to say that you were good at something. You didn't want to be too good at some things. You're to make somebody else feel bad. So we have this conditioning from a lifetime of just like being told to just, it's okay, fit in. and I think you can easily tell kind of where you fall on that of like scale of one to 10 of how much you're like, where somebody asks you, Hey,

What have you been up to? nothing.

Tracy Goodwin (10:38)
He did.

Nicole (10:38)
You know, like, like, and,

know, this just happened with, our one program. have a program that, it's a calendar contest that a photographer created and she built her business with it. And she's now teaching other photographers how to do this. And it works with this one software. It's a small family owned software company. And so they just gave me last week, the update from last year from this calendar contest.

They, the calendar contest that ran last year, just for my community, just to Pat photographers raised over $600,000 last year alone for these different charities that they are working with. And it's, like one of those things where you're like, okay, maybe you don't have something that just raised $6,000, but there is something that, that you can be like, what's going on? Well, this just happened and like own it and step into it. And people, people are going to be excited for it.

But we, think, have this belief that they're not going to accept it, or they're going to think that we're too big for our britches, or who do we think we are.

Tracy Goodwin (11:41)
of that. Everything you said, that whole monologue about what we're, know, don't make this one feel bad and it plays out in siblings as well. Don't be smarter than your sister or don't be, it's school, it's everywhere, it's shut it down, shut it down, shut it down. And so we, that's what we do. And then we have these tremendous fears of, like you said, I don't want to be too much. I don't want to be bossy. I don't want people to think I'm arrogant. The number of times in a week

Nicole (11:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Tracy Goodwin (12:11)
that I hear, I don't want to come across arrogant. And I have to say, there's no way if I worked with you the rest of your life, I could make you arrogant because it's not who you are. And that is a sound. You would literally have to put that on.

Nicole (12:14)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I love it. All right. So one thing that you said when we were together in November, which was like all of us in the room were like, my gosh, is we've heard for years that people do business because they know, like, and trust us. And you're like, Nope, not anymore. So what has changed?

Tracy Goodwin (12:41)
Well, that's a, I tell you, that one, I love it when it lands well, but sometimes it's that we've heard it our whole lives. We've, we've hinged everything on it. And who's this woman coming in here saying, nope, that doesn't work anymore.

Nicole (12:49)
Mm-hmm.

Ha ha.

Tracy Goodwin (12:55)
I did, as I said, I'm a big researcher and I guess it's been about two years now, year and a half ago, I was hearing everybody throw out these numbers of how fast a buyer will trust you. And I don't like that. I don't want accurate information out there. I don't like, well, I heard it was this, so I'm just gonna say it. Those kinds of things really bother me.

And I was hearing 13 seconds, nine seconds, 27 seconds. And I said, you know what? I haven't researched this in 15 years. I'm gonna do a study. Yeah, I need to know. I gotta have this right. So I brought in 17 people. I had recorded their voices, not selling anything, simply introducing themselves. Then I brought in hundreds of test audience members.

Nicole (13:24)
I want a real answer.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (13:44)
The test audience listened to those recordings and part of their goal was they had to decide when they trusted the person and when they would buy from the person. Then we collected all the data, we studied all the data. The median number of when people trusted the voice that was selling them nothing was three seconds. The median number when they would determine if they would buy

was 13 seconds. But what I discovered next actually blew my mind. Over 65 % of the numbers showed that people still would not buy even if they trusted. And so when I brought the list, the people that participated back in, said, okay, why is that? That used to be an automatic. If I trusted you, I would buy. If you're selling something, I want. But this was like not, they weren't even selling anything.

So I said, I have a suspicion of what it is, but I'm gonna go back and do another study. And I went back and I did another study and what came out of it is, I have to be able to connect and I have to know who you are. Connection and authenticity, Trump, everything else. I trust still plays into it, but not like it used to. If what the dominant things that are showing people will buy.

Nicole (14:58)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (15:10)
connection and authenticity.

Nicole (15:12)
Hmm. Which I guess would lead to trust. you have connection and authenticity, then trust is a by-product. Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin (15:14)
Absolutely.

That's right. If I know who

you are, I'm going to hear the sounds of trust. Now, what's really interesting is I've since then done another study where what I'm finding, I'm actually in the middle of it right now. I'm finding that people are retrospectively able to go see, so this is all this is happening because buyer trust is decimated. People have been burned and AI. And so what I'm finding is people can now say to me, yeah,

I knew I was gonna get taken advantage of. I could hear it in their voice now that I look back, which shows me people are leaning into sound more than they've ever leaned into, because they're, are you real? Are you trustworthy? Are you my person? They're listening for sounds.

Nicole (15:50)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Awesome. So yeah.

Tracy Goodwin (16:04)
So it's bigger than no

like and trust. Now we've got to be able to connect. That's the number one thing across the board.

Nicole (16:10)
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And people are terrified to do so. and, it, having that authenticity, mean, it's the simplest thing in the world is just, just be yourself, but it's not easy because of all of this. So like, how do we even start to do this? How do we start to like figure out? Cause you know, it's subconscious. You're like, well, I don't even know what mask I'm putting on. Like, what do people, where do we even start with this information and this revelation?

Tracy Goodwin (16:15)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Yeah,

well, and that's the million dollar question. I love what you just said. It kind of makes me crazy how everybody, well, just be authentic. And I want to go, well, why didn't I think of that? You know, because it's, that's the hardest thing you could ever ask anybody to do because we've spent a lifetime putting mask on top of mask on top of mask. Let me be this and let me be the cheerleader and let me be, you know, there's 17 masks I've created of I'm going to be everything but who I am.

Nicole (16:53)
Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (17:07)
And so while I can't really say, okay, this is how you're gonna crack this mask and this is how you're gonna bring these sounds up. I can give you some tactics to implement that are going to get you out in front of the mask. This is what my Ted talk, I did a Ted talk on this actually this past year about the six voice masks that determine your reality. And I believe this, yeah. I believe this is what determines our reality.

Nicole (17:23)
awesome.

We'll have the link. We'll link to that in the show notes if somebody else, yeah, you were.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (17:34)
because

of whatever mask I'm gonna put on and whether you can connect with me or not. And that's what everybody's seeking. So there's a couple of, and it's an inside job. It's an internal, know, typical voice coaching. You want me to tell you to just speak louder or maybe throw in some pauses, but you're still gonna have the mask and the technique is not gonna stick. So we have to go inside and we have to, first of all, stop deciding what they're thinking. That is a huge driver.

Nicole (17:44)
Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (18:02)
of a mouth, they're gonna think I'm not smart enough, so I'm gonna be a professional. Or they're really busy, Nicole's really busy, so I'm gonna put on my do not bother mask and I'm gonna, or I'm gonna talk really fast because I don't wanna take up too much of her time, so I'm gonna hurry up and say, you nobody can connect with that. So we've gotta stop deciding what people are thinking. We don't know. We could ask them and they could lie. So we're never gonna know what they're thinking.

Nicole (18:19)
Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (18:29)
And why are we letting them decide who we are anyway? Do you see how that's an instant alter, altering of myself if I decide you want me to be funny and I'm not funny and now I gotta come up with a way to be funny or whatever it is. Then we have to, you know, this is a really great one for shifting masks is we have to start talking to people

Nicole (18:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (18:58)
Like we're talking to somebody we really care about. Because if I'm intimidated by you, if I'm afraid you're going to say no, if I were to come up and ask you if I could come on the show and I'm afraid you're going to say no, I'm going to foreshadow that. And you're not gonna want me on the show. But if I come up and talk to you like in my mind's eye, I'm talking to somebody I know, like and trust, I'm going to be more myself.

Nicole (19:01)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (19:28)
So

you always wanna put, you're not talking to the scary client or prospect that might say no or might not like this or might judge that. You're always talking to Bill and Judy at the kitchen table or whoever it is for you. Which leads me to another point and it's really all intertwined, connection and authenticity. It's all intertwined.

Nicole (19:41)
Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (19:53)
because authenticity is laying underneath these masks that are blocking connection. Something that can be a real shifter is when I ask people, what's the first thing you want me to feel about you or decide about you when I meet you? And this is actually, this one's coming right off of science. Science has proven that within under 30 seconds, we decide over 36 things about a person. Isn't that shocking?

Nicole (20:07)
Okay.

Wow.

Tracy Goodwin (20:22)
and get this, you'll love one of the points that, I don't remember all the points because it's been years since I've studied the study. One of the points is we can hear in a voice if people like dogs or cats. Isn't that unbelievable? I know, I know, I know. and, yeah.

Nicole (20:35)
feel like them both.

Although I definitely do have a favorite. I

won't give it away here. You guys are gonna have to do the research and decide in my voice which one I like best.

Tracy Goodwin (20:47)
Yeah, so I always go into every scene, every scenario, every conversation, every, no matter what room I'm walking into, and I always lead with, I want you to feel like you've known me your whole life. So I talk to you like I've known you my whole life. And it doesn't matter what you want that first feeling to be. If you want that first feeling to be, I want them to trust me. I want them to think I know what I'm talking about. I want them to hear how fun I am.

Nicole (21:03)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (21:17)
You've seen me coach people before and you know, I'll hear this sound and I'll go, you're really fun, aren't you? And they'll go, well, actually I kind of am fun. And I'm like, okay, then stop giving me data points in your introduction. Stop talking to me like it's a checklist and lead with fun. And then they'll do it, you know, they'll do it again. it's radically changes the whole sound. I mean, you've heard it in real time. So,

Nicole (21:36)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (21:45)
We decide what are the two or three things that I want them to decide about me. And we just simply have to put them in our mind. I know I'm gonna talk to you like I've known you my whole life. trust is one of mine. I want you to feel safe. It's really more safety. I want you to feel safe with me. And I want you to know that I know what I'm talking about. Those are all sounds. And they're actually authentic sounds to who I am.

Nicole (21:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (22:12)
You can,

you can lead with whatever you want. There's no rule book on this. I've made it up. Might be fun. It might be knowledgeable. It might be, I'm your greatest motivator. It might be, I'm, I'm going to be, I'm never going to get rattled. Whatever it is, you've got to find those things and you start leading with that and you start talking from that and you stop making them the enemy and the decider that holds the control.

Nicole (22:38)
Hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (22:41)
You hold the control.

Nicole (22:41)
my gosh.

That is, that is huge right there. Cause I think so many people have, give so much power to whoever they're talking to, especially in a prospect for photography services. Like that, that they, they don't have control over the situation or, you know, and they just, the other person's the decider and what do I need to do to get them to decide? And

Yeah. If we can, if we can kind of shift. it's like, all right, I have an inquiry. need to call this person back. What do I want them to feel? What do I want them? I mean, that's, I still ask myself, I have it on my computer. What do I want them to feel before I record any video before I do anything? It's like, all right, what do I want them to feel? And it shifts everything. It shifts like the energy that I approach the conversation for, and it shifts the, the final product, but

Tracy Goodwin (23:21)
Yeah.

Nicole (23:38)
It's such a subtle thing, but it's so impactful.

Tracy Goodwin (23:41)
Well, that's the crazy thing about this work. You know, you've heard me say that I had a client one time that said, you work in sounds the size of a grain of sand, Tracy. And I said, yeah, but have you ever gotten sand in your eye? One grain. And that's the, it is, it's little subtle shifts that change everything. But that giving the power away, that if you are listening right now and you are doing that, this is why you're not.

Nicole (23:51)
you

Tracy Goodwin (24:10)
booking the number of sales that you want. Because they aren't looking for you to make them happy, be what they want you to be. mean, yeah, we could break that down and we could go, well, yeah, you want a happy client. I don't want you to think about it like that. You're trying to accommodate what you think they want and they're looking for a rock star to come in and go, don't worry, I got this. This is what we're gonna do. And show you who they are. Take control.

Nicole (24:13)
Mm-hmm.

course. Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin (24:38)
Take power, do think they wanna get on set? I keep calling it on set, that's how I think about it. Do you think they wanna get you on set? And you're like, well, I don't know, what do you think? Nicole, what do you think would be good for Bertie to do? I don't know. No, they want, that's how you build trust. Even though trust is off the table, trust in my mind comes from authority. Yep, I've got this. This is who I am, this is how we're gonna do. And you know I did a research study on it.

Nicole (24:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Tracy Goodwin (25:06)
people are actually seeking sounds of the experience they wanna have. And if you give them no sounds, you give them no experience. And I love this example that I give, I think about if I were to hire a health coach, I cannot have somebody yelling at me because I will cry. I can't have somebody militaristic, okay, that's a sound. But I also know, Nicole, that I will manipulate over cupcakes.

Nicole (25:12)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (25:34)
And so I've got to have somebody with a backbone that I'm not gonna feel bad manipulating. That's a sound. So when I start looking to hire someone, I wanna hear what the experience is going to be. And the foundation of that experience is you are the authority. You are the authority and you're gonna make it happen.

Nicole (25:37)
Haha

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I was going to say, as you're talking to me, it was coming up that it was like, we must, must, must, must ground ourselves in our energy in that we know what we're doing. We can serve this client that they are going to like that they that we've got them that, you know, no matter what. And, you know, a lot of pet photographers feel good. This is like, whatever any dog I got you. But when you start to bring in the person piece of it,

Tracy Goodwin (26:22)
Mm-mm.

Nicole (26:25)
It's like, but I just want to photograph the dog. And then they start to get in the head of the human. I'm like, no, just think about like, even if it's, need to go forward 10 years and now that dog's passed. Now this owner has these beautiful images. How does that owner look at those images now? Like that's what I'm here to help you get and, to let go of us feeling good about ourselves, bad about ourselves based on their

their outcome of what they decide to do. And instead just rooting into that, Hey, I know what I'm doing. I can create some amazing images that you are going to treasure forever. Here's how I can help you. And just letting them make the decision if they're going to work with you or not, because they might love you, but maybe they can't quite afford it right now. And they're going come back next year. Like get out of their head.

Tracy Goodwin (27:15)
Yeah, and you know, I went, uh-uh, because as you were talking, because I'm like, no, you can't approach the humans. You've got the full control of the dog. I've got this. I can do anything. Bring it, you know. I mean, I kind of challenge you with my dog, Bertie, but I bet you can. I bet you can. I totally am going to get in the car one day and drive to North Carolina so you can take these photos of her. But you can't, but you can't.

Nicole (27:26)
Yeah.

I've got her. I've got her. Listen, I've got you.

Hahaha

Tracy Goodwin (27:42)
Well, I was gonna say you can't approach the human like that, you can actually approach the human like that. That's the problem is you're not approaching the human like that. You've got to transfer that over, but I'm gonna give you something that really is a game changer on that.

Nicole (27:52)
Right. Exactly. Yes.

Tracy Goodwin (28:03)
You gotta stand on the right rock. And most people are standing on the rock of, I don't know, I don't know, what if they ask me that? I don't know, I don't know if they're gonna like me, I don't know what they want me. That's a bad rock. You gotta stand on the rock of like what you think of the dog or the cat or whatever the animal is that you're photographing. I'm on that rock, I got this. That's the rock I'm gonna stand on. And then when you throw a zinger to me, I'm gonna trust that I've got it.

But I'm not gonna talk to you already from the place of you may not, you may ask, you may, yeah, that's out there, that's possible. But I wanna talk to you from the rock of what I know. And I know I'm good, and I know I'm this, and I know I'm that. But then there's a secret weapon that you can plug into your brain. And I go into everything with this. Act as if the outcome's yours.

And it doesn't mean I want you to be an actor. You can be an actor if you want. But it means I am going, if I come in to a sales conversation believing you're not going to buy, you are not going to buy. And from a sound perspective, it's because I'm gonna be talking to you like this because I already know. Yeah, I think it would be great, Nicole, if we worked together. I think I can really help you with your voice. Yeah, you're wanting to sign right up, aren't you?

Nicole (29:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you

Tracy Goodwin (29:26)
No, and

I'm not saying you gotta go in and be like, wah, cheerleader. No, but I go in believing that it's mine. And because what that does from a voice perspective, it opens up space in the sound for the buyer to lean in and hear who you are and hear possibility. And the number one sound the brain wants to process is possibility.

Nicole (29:34)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

I love that. And if you're coming in with the monotone, like already questioning if they're going to do anything, it's kind of like a wall. It's like a, yeah, a verbal wall that you're just putting up and they're just like, knock, knock. Is there a secret password? well.

Tracy Goodwin (29:59)
Totally. Can't get in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's mask. And it blocks, I

call it armor of sounds. It's invisible armor that we put on that keeps people out because we're so afraid of rejection, judgment, abandonment. And ultimately the back end of all of it is worth.

Nicole (30:24)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. What are some of the common myths? I know you said there's like 17, if you don't need to go through all of those, like, are there some that are more common that you hear more commonly? Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin (30:31)
Yeah.

yeah, yeah.

The bucket of sounds that are in people pleaser mask, I'm probably the people pleaser whisperer. They find me, they come to me, they are drawn to me. That is probably the number one that I deal with and that's, there's a hesitation and a tentativeness. That's where we find I gotta convince you, I've gotta say a whole lot of words to convince you that I'm good enough. I've gotta justify.

Nicole (30:41)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (31:05)
This is where you have your uptick, where everything becomes a question. And that sound right there is literally being processed in your buyer there. And when I, when I say process, they're making a decision and they're going, is she really the expert? She's asking me subconsciously. No, going down subconscious. Yeah. It's a subconscious game I play over here.

Nicole (31:09)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Subconsciously, yeah, they're not even they're not verbally asking themselves. It's just this is all happening. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin (31:31)
So

the filler words are actually, I don't call it filler, I call it buffer. And it's where we're like, well, you know, maybe we could maybe like, you know, work together maybe, right? know, we're filling it, because we're so afraid of that rejection. The people pleaser mask is the really, really big one. It's tentative. I've seen people lose million dollar deals because of the people pleaser mask, because we neutralize.

Nicole (31:47)
huh.

Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin (31:59)
Well, I don't know what you want me to be, so I'm certainly not gonna be my dramatic self because you might not like that. So yeah, we can work together or not or whatever. So that's a big one. Yeah, whatever you, yeah, yeah. So that's a big one. Professional can be a big one for people and that's where I'm gonna be professional. That's like the Walter Cronkite or the Radio Guy voice. Yeah.

Nicole (32:10)
Whatever you want. What do you want?

Welcome. Welcome to the evening news. Let me tell you

about how this is going to work.

Tracy Goodwin (32:25)
Totally,

And it's so afraid, we're so afraid we're not. So if I put the professional mask on, you won't find out that I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. Well, you really do have a clue what you're talking about. So that's a big one. Cheerleader is a big one. I gotta be really jazzed. Hi, Nicole. Thanks for having me on the show. Okay, if I am that way, it's not gonna come across like a mask. But I'm not that way. So I'm not gonna do it that way.

Nicole (32:29)
Mm-hmm.

Well,

and you wouldn't like, if you were a cheerleader as like your kind of superpower mass, because I think all of these masks can have like a shadow side and kind of a superpower side. And so if, if you really authentically do kind of identify with that cheerleader piece, you're not doing that for the entire time you're talking to your client, right? It's like just these little bits of it here and there, right? Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin (32:56)
Yeah.

Totally.

Right.

Right, totally.

There's one that maybe your people find. It's the do not bother. I don't wanna bother anybody. So I'm just gonna, you and this manifests in several different ways. It can be really, you know, small and not saying a lot, or it could be really fast. I'm gonna hurry up and say all the things really fast, because I know I'm taking up your time and I know you're really important. So I'm gonna hurry up and say everything really fast. So what do you think?

Nicole (33:24)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (33:39)
You know, that's problematic. Probably the other big one that your people might have, well, and then I don't mean your people, but I mean, that I see the most is perfection. And perfection can be processed in the brain as, well, I don't think I'm good enough to work with her. Everything's going to have to be perfect and she's kind of rigid or he's kind of rigid. And I really want to be a part of this. And so the perfection mask,

Nicole (33:40)
Thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (34:07)
can block that we're gonna collaborate. And that's huge problem because yeah, I want you to be the expert, but, I'm guessing here because I know nothing from the perspective of where y'all are sitting, but I would think maybe these people wanna be a part of it. Your buyer wants to be a part of it. I mean, they don't wanna tell you how to do the shots. Like, nah, think you'd take that angle, but I think they wanna feel like they're a part of it. Yeah.

Nicole (34:12)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah,

that's a big piece and you know, we're selling of course artwork at the end, but it's really the experience all the way through of, know, the relationship with their dog and having fun on the day of and making it light and easy and like the possibility of what we can create together and all of those. So it's really taking them on that whole journey.

Tracy Goodwin (34:50)
Yeah.

Yeah, I love what you just said, light and easy. I think that's really important for me to acknowledge because light and easy is way more inviting and it's about them. When I'm light and easy, I'm trusting that I've got this. And so I can make it about you. The minute I start making it about me and my insecurities and my deficits, it's gonna get heavy. And heavy is not what they want.

Nicole (35:05)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

yeah. my gosh. The parallels between this and just like our thoughts and like how we manifest what happens, like this is like the verbal stamp on whatever craziness is going on in our head. Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin (35:42)
Totally, if

it's in your head, it's coming out. That's why when I did the TED Talk, I really, I think I've always known this, but when I was working in the finiteness of writing that talk, I really realized this is the greatest manifestation tool. It really, it is, I love that you said the verbal stamp of everything that I believe, everything that I feel or don't.

Nicole (35:45)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (36:11)
or I mean all of it. And so that's pretty powerful.

Nicole (36:16)
Yeah. my gosh. So good. you guys that you're going to have to listen to this one again, because there was just so much knowledge drop that, yeah, this, should be a repeater. and definitely, even if you guys listen to one 28, that podcast episode, we'll link in the show notes, go back and listen to that again, because it's, it's still applicable. Even though, you know, Tracy, you have this new research about the authentic

Tracy Goodwin (36:23)
Hahaha

Nicole (36:44)
Authentic, can't say that authenticity and connection, you know, kind of trumping that trust the, know, everything that we still talked about in 128 is still a hundred percent applicable because it's talking about how we're kind of creating these, these, different, how we're basically repelling people with our voice because we are letting these thoughts cloud, whether they're conscious thoughts that we know that we're feeling out of our league.

that we're not ready. We don't know what we're doing. my God. Or what are they going to do? What are they going to say? No. What does that mean for me? If they say no, then obviously I'm not supposed to do this ever. And I suck and I should quit and I should go get a corporate job again. And like, if you go down this whole entire, just yeah, down this deep spiral. So yeah, this is so good.

Tracy Goodwin (37:26)
Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, on the know, and trust, I am still fascinated with the whole concept. And I think part of it is maybe it's not that it doesn't work. It's that it has evolved. And I think the AI piece, and I'm not down in AI at all, although I'm doing some really shocking research around AI voices right now.

Nicole (37:45)
Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (37:57)
But I think it's that, I think the AI and the buyer trust, there's been a significant decimation of buyer trust in the last four years. And so I think that's what really played into, can't just trust you and decide I'm gonna buy. I've done that.

Nicole (38:06)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (38:16)
And I've been burned now for four years over and over in multiple ways, or my friends have, or, you know, whatever capacity that is. So I think it's like, okay, I can trust is still at play, but it's not the decider anymore. It's, I have to be able to connect, which that doesn't surprise me either. That came right out of the pandemic and everybody went home. That came right out of that. And then authenticity is AI.

Nicole (38:32)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (38:47)
So

I can still want to build trust, but I want to quantum leap it. And I want to have the other pieces in place too, because people are, it's not as easy of a sell. And I don't want to be a downer about it because I think you can still sell, absolutely. But the days of sure, let's go. People want far more touch points now than they have wanted over the last decade.

And it's because of all of these things that we're talking about. I have to know, I have to trust, but I have to have that security that I'm right in what I believe I hear. I'm not gonna just buy the promise anymore.

Nicole (39:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, this is huge. And as you were saying that too, I was thinking that we have a massive opportunity as photographers, because we really are personal brands, right? Like unless you're shooting for some giant corporation, like there's very few of those. Most of us, we're the whole business. We're the photographer. We're talking to the clients. We're creating the images. We're selling. Like it's all of it. And I think so many people are

Tracy Goodwin (39:38)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole (39:56)
worry about like how much of my personal story do I share? And they're worried about sharing like too much about how much they love their dog or what they do with their dog on the weekends or how much of like they chose their house because it had a better backyard for the dog or you know sharing too much. And then people be like, you're weird.

Tracy Goodwin (40:00)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Nicole (40:18)
Why

do you into your dog that much? Or even just other things that are important to them. Like I have the nonprofit. So like sustainability is important to me. Like I should have that on my website. Like I, I, I want people to see the opportunity that we have as a personal brand to allow people in, to connect with more pieces of us other than just whatever we think like the shiny. I am a photographer and I like dogs.

Ding. You know.

Tracy Goodwin (40:47)
Yeah, yeah, well, there's so

much in this right here. And I can say so much. One, I think story is great. But I think people, you know, we do this all or nothing thing. And we think, well, I gotta tell them all the things. And I don't know if I wanna tell them all. You know, I bet people know 10 things about me. But everybody feels like they know me. They know pieces of the story. It's not like I'm trying to hide anything. But we've gotta find that balance of it's not about me when you're here.

Nicole (40:52)
Okay.

Mm-hmm. Right, right.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (41:17)
I'm

happy to tell you anything you want to know, but when you're here, to me, it's about you. So, pendulum can swing too far and it's like, sit down, I gotta talk about me. I gotta tell you, you know, that can be problematic. But here's the cool thing. Yeah, absolutely share those moments. That's connection as well. But what authenticity really is, is you're gonna hear it without me saying it. And I'll give you an example. It's an entrepreneurial example.

Nicole (41:27)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (41:48)
and I deal with this a lot with entrepreneurs, they will pitch the whole thing from the plate. Let's say they're a health coach or a mindset coach or whatever it is. They're talking the whole time from the place that they're at on the other side, because I can get you over here. And so I'm going to talk to you from over here. Well, that's a huge problem because you've never heard them that I've been over there. And you have to hear that I've been over there.

Nicole (41:56)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (42:16)
because

then you're gonna really understand that I can get you over here. And these notes, I call them notes, they're all in us. So maybe you share a lot about yourself. I think that's great. I do think people wanna know, but what are you sharing in sound that's relatable to their experience? Have you lost a pet? And they're going to lose a pet. I want them to hear,

Nicole (42:35)
Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (42:42)
that grief in your voice that you relate. That's a moment that I don't want to miss that moment.

Nicole (42:45)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. my gosh. So good. No, it's just, it does. It does make sense to like, to be able to, yeah, to be able to show that you've been on that journey too and not just say like, hey, I got it. Whatever is grass, bell in the past, easy now because to the buyer that's in that situation now, it doesn't feel easy.

Tracy Goodwin (42:55)
You look deep in thought. Does that make sense? Hope that makes sense.

Yeah.

That's right.

Nicole (43:19)
So it's

like creating that connection through empathy, through your voice of them knowing like, you felt this way too. Yeah. 100%.

Tracy Goodwin (43:28)
Yeah, and when we do all of this, you know, there's a fear that we, the whole catalyst is I've got to neutralize everything so that you'll buy, because then I can be what you want me to be. That's actually the problem. The minute we commit to like, this is who I am. You've seen me multiple occasions. I'm always like this. The minute we commit to that, the people that are ours are really going to go all in. And the people that were never ours to begin with,

Nicole (43:37)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Goodwin (43:57)
They're not gonna be around.

Nicole (43:59)
Yeah. Yeah. my gosh. So there's so much information we just threw at people and that I'm worried and this happened last night. Two people were like, well, God, Tracy, now I have too much to think about. What I'm in my head. So this is all great information to have, but I think, help me sum this up. I'm thinking for my takeaways, is a, we need to work on our own self-worth and belief that we are

Tracy Goodwin (44:07)
Hahaha

Nicole (44:27)
providing an amazing service and we can help people and like just focus on that service. And so keep working on that. And then also just the work on the, all right, ask ourselves before any phone call, before any IPS, before any session, how do I want them to feel? What do I want them to feel? And just trust that let's do this, I've got this and just focus on that feeling of worthiness.

Tracy Goodwin (44:54)
Yeah, whatever you buy into, they're gonna buy into. So you've got to buy in, the outcome is yours. You are amazing, you've got this. Stand on that rock.

Nicole (45:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I love it. So good. my gosh. Tell us a little bit, we're gonna link that Ted talk, but tell us also a little bit where people can find you, how they can work with you if they wanna go deeper on their own journey with you.

Tracy Goodwin (45:23)
Yeah, everywhere except LinkedIn, I'm Captivate the Room. Instagram, all the places, I'm Captivate the Room. LinkedIn, I'm Tracy Goodwin. I do a number of different groups, shorter term groups, I have a six week group, I have a 12 week group. I do a launch review type program. I do solo coaching. And then along the way I have digital courses.

digital assets and workshops. I'll do various workshops throughout the year. I always post it on the website, but I really always post it on social media. So if you follow me on Instagram, you can definitely get your hands on something. I have an audio that might be valuable. It's called Command Any Space. And so that's a free audio and you just go to captivatetheroom.com/command and you can get your hands on that audio.

Nicole (46:08)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Tracy Goodwin (46:17)
And I'm always trying to roll things out that are gonna be very valuable. How do you say that first line? How do you say, you know, all the things. But if you follow me, you'll have access to all the things.

Nicole (46:25)
Yeah.

Awesome. my gosh, Tracy. So good. Thank you so, so much. I'm sure you guys found this incredibly helpful. and like I said, listen to this episode a couple of times, cause there are some incredible nuggets in here. Tracy, always a pleasure. Thank you again for being here and, we'll talk to you soon.