Welcome to the hair of the dog podcast. I'm Nicole Begley. And today we are going to be talking about inquiries that convert with two of our elevate coaches, Mark Moffitt from dirty dog photography and Kim Hartz from Kim heart's photography. Stay tuned.

Welcome to the hair of the dog podcast. If you're a pet photographer, ready to make more money and start living a life by your design, you've come to the right place. And now your host pet photographer, travel addicts, chocolate martini, connoisseur sewer, Nicole Begley. Hey, everybody. And Nicole here.

Thanks again for joining me for a yet another podcast. I can't believe we're up to 40 episodes. What time flies when you're having fun. Um, hope you guys have been enjoying this podcast as much as I have. If you've been enjoying the podcast, may I be so bold as to ask you to please leave a rating and a review on iTunes? It's just very helpful to help other people start to find this podcast so that they can get the benefits from it as well. Just wanted to share a one of our podcasts, this one's from Sheila. And it says that listening to Nicole is like having an explosion of new idea, introduced to your brain on a weekly basis. I love it. She always has something fresh to present, even if it's just reassuring you that your thoughts and feelings are normal, highly recommend adding this podcast here weekly to do list. Thanks, Sheila, really appreciate the review. And for the rest of you guys would love to have your support as well. As for today's episode, we are talking about the inquiry process. So you may or may not know I am have created a hair of a dog elevate program, which is a program to help pet photographers, scale their business, to help them get more clients, get more done from a place of ease instead of a place of hustle. And we have myself and a variety of other coaches in the program. And today I'm bringing two of those coaches onto the podcast to talk about their inquiry process. So one of the things we really stress inside of elevate is taking action and focusing on the two things that matter most in our business, which is getting more leads and making more sales. Now, there is this big space in between those two, that's a pretty critical piece of the program and that is converting our inquiries. And a lot of photographers tend to do that wrong because we get in our heads, we get nervous about sending something out. We make up stories. We think it's easier just to respond to an inquiry with an email and a full price list, but, um, how's that working out for you? What got you here? Won't get you where you want to go. If you're not already at where you want to go. So what got you here? Won't get you there. So we definitely need to look at how we're doing that and maybe make a couple changes. So Kim and Mark are offering some great suggestions today and I love this episode. So stay tuned, enjoy, and let's book some more inquiries, shall we? Oh, and if you're interested in being one of our elevate students so that you can start building your business, growing your business and living the life that you desire. Well, check out all of the [email protected] slash elevate. We have a new class of enrollment starting soon. Hey, everybody at Nicole here from hair of the dog and I am here with my friend Kim Hartz from Kim heart's photography in Houston, Texas, and Kim is also one of our elevate coaches for our hair of the dog elevate group coaching program. So hello, Kim, welcome to the podcast. Hello. Thanks for having me. Of course, I should say welcome back. Um, if you guys want to listen to our other podcasts, we did. Oh my gosh. Hold on. Let me look it up real quick. So Kim's already been on the podcast. If you want to listen to her previous episode, it's episode 15, where we actually talked about the key to client inquiries, which is pretty funny because today we're also talking about client inquiries because this came up in our elevate program where we have been helping our students focus on getting leads and sales, but one of the big missing components to that is to make sure that they're able to convert those leads to customers for our inquiry process. We thought, how fun would that be to really all of us dive into our processes, then I thought let's make that even better. And we'll share that with the entire hair of the dog community, the, our podcast. So again, Kim, thanks for being here to share your processes with us.

I'm more than happy to, that's so funny that we, we talked about that already, but yeah, there's always more you can dig into. Yeah,

Absolutely. Yeah. Kim and I were just sitting, we were like, gosh, I know you were on the podcast. What did we talk about? And I looked it up. I'm like, Oh, we talked about inquiries. That's pretty funny. But I think we definitely had a different slant to it in that conversations. We didn't go through the exact process, but I guess tell us a little bit about your business Kim to start us off.

Sure. So, um, let's see, I'll give you the quick rundown I've been in business now full-time for 10 years, about six months in, I dropped all the general portraiture and went straight into pet photography as my main area of business. I got a lot of flack for that too, because at the time nobody was really doing it. And people thought that I was crazy. No one would pay to have their pets photograph, which I think we've all found out that that is not the case people will, and people love their pets, like their children. So I've been doing it. Like I said, full-time for 10 years or Kimberly, this is my 10th year. And I told somebody that last night they were like 10 years. I'm like, yeah. You know, so it's been great. Um, I, you know, I've learned a lot of things by doing things the wrong way and then figured out how to do it the right way and, uh, love to share what I know and continuing to try to make sure I continually evolve my business and educate myself even now, just to make sure, cause things are always changing. Yeah.

Oh, a hundred percent. I'm in the process. I needed to redo my website for my Nicole Begley, photography brand desperately. And I knew there's no way I'm going to do it. So I'm hiring someone to do it, but of course I'm looking at it to get all the content together and how I want the flow. And I'm kind of like going to revamp my whole business basically from the ground up and I'm actually really excited about it. So yeah. So I think we're always think that's one of the biggest myths too, because people were like, well, I'm not ready to go public at all. I'm not ready to get client check because this isn't done and that isn't done. And I want to be like, when I do tell them, you say spoiler alert, you're never going to be done. Now you are always going to be working on your business. And there's always something that you want to improve or change or update. So yeah, constant constant evolution

Because I saw that you were going to be working on that and it's, it's a big product, but that's fun too. Like the things you can do and the things you can change and the new look, I mean almost makes me want to do it, but I need to tell you, you know, I did it, not that long ago. I feel like I redid the whole website, everything, but yeah, it's, it's an important piece for sure.

Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah. So you're a business. Tell us about it. It is focused on products and like a boutique high service situation. Sure.

So it's um, I, I set it up in the beginning. I want it to be low volume, higher priced, more of a boutique photography studio that catered to clients who were, you know, fewer clients coming in, but they're spending more money. So I could cater more to the individual client's need versus trying to, you know, pump them in and out and try to, you know, get those mid range, low, lower end sales, because I knew the way I wanted to work as I wanted to develop those client relationships. And I also didn't want to be working 24 seven. It's just me. So I don't have, you know, associate photographers or I don't even know, let me pick this one one way. You could refer to them, but I don't have anybody working for me. It's literally just me. And I knew that I couldn't maintain that type of a business model nor did I want to. So that's how my business has been structured since the beginning, but it's been really nice because I've been able to make some amazing connections with my clients and they keep coming back and they refer me. And so it allows me to continue to shoot the way I want it fits into my life, the way I want. But then having those relationships is great because I've had people that come to me have come to me since I opened and continue to come to me. And it's hard to do that if you're just getting them in and out. Cause you can't really form that relationship.

Yeah. A hundred percent totally agree. So tell us a little bit, I guess, about your inquiry process. What does that look like? You know, I'm assuming it starts with people come to your website and then what, what happens from there?

Sure. So people come to the website and hopefully they look around, I try to keep everything very, to the point because people's attention spans are ridiculously small. What is it like less than a goldfish, which is like 60 seconds,

Eight seconds or there nine seconds or something like that. It's less than 10. Yeah.

Yeah. So you don't have a lot of time to capture them. So I think making sure that your website is to the point, they can see exactly what you do. Very so cause people are gonna know at the beginning, like, okay, either want to pursue this or no, it's not for me. So making sure that you make it very easy for them to make that decision is important. I don't have a lot of texts on my website cause nobody reads anything anymore. I have very quick brief. This is how things work. And then of course there's a, I have a little book now button, which takes them to the contact page because you can't actually book on the website. Cause I want to talk to people first, but it takes you to the contact page that has you fill out some information, send it to me. Um, and that's one way you can acquire. And so some people do that. But then I also have, which is super important on your contact page. You need to have your phone number. You need to have your email, you need to have your hours. You need to have your city. A lot of people don't even put where they're located, which is it's just insane. I mean, obviously I'll travel, but if you want to know where I am, you know, like if I'm in your city and available that way, you'll put it on there. And so, and I also put by appointment only so that people know they can't pop in, but having your email, your phone number and that other information I just mentioned is super important because a lot of times people will just have the contact page and maybe somebody wants to call. I mean, you don't know exactly who this person is or you know, which client bucket they fit into. Maybe they don't want to do everything via the internet. Maybe they prefer a phone call. So have that. I mean, this is my little soap box.

Yes. Client contact forms can break. I actually just had two inquiries. Emailed me last week, found my email on my website. Cause I have my website or my email listed to one, got in touch with me via social media, one via email and said, Hey, I've been trying to contact you, your contact. Link's not working or your contact form. So yeah, those things break. And if there's no other way for people to get in touch with you, all of a sudden you're gonna be like, why haven't I come to any inquiries for so long? Right?

Yeah. So it's super important to have lots of ways that people can contact you because yeah, that blink is broken. But also I always like to think of some of my best clients are empty-nesters and they don't want to deal with the internet as little as possible, some of them, so they want to call me, so you have to have that option. But so people go there, they find that information, they figure out, okay, you know, which way do I want to contact her? And I also have kind of a fun little message instead of it just being like name, phone number, email message I put under the message. What do you love about being a parent? And then in parentheses, it's okay if your kids are furry and I get the most interesting comments, but it's already engaging people and creating that relationship. And it's fun, you know, but I'm on the contract form too. I do require, uh, email and phone because I want to be able to contact them both ways. And some people are hesitant about the phone thing, but the phone is one of the best ways to convert clients or potential clients to actual clients. So I think it's really important to have that. Do you

Ask them how they prefer to be contacted or you just call everybody,

Everybody, but that's a good point to bring up that it's something maybe I should consider because some people don't want to be called. Some people prefer the email. Uh, I just like the phone call because I feel like it adds that extra layer of personal attention. Even if I don't get to the majority of people that do not get on the phone, I get a voicemail, but at least I've left him a voicemail. And then I emailed them after the fact so that they know I, I left you a voicemail, but I'd love to chat with you. And then they'll follow up, which with whichever way they prefer. But I think that phone call makes a big difference because the way the world is, nobody has any personal connections. I'll text, it's email. It's, you know, it's, some people don't want to connect with people on the phone, but some people do. And I think making that extra effort is what puts me in front of other photographers. If they're reaching out to a wide variety and that's one of the best things, especially with my empty-nesters, they love that because I've taken the time to actually call and talk to them because a lot of people just want to chat real quick. It may take two minutes, but you know, they get the information they need versus back and forth on email. And it is more personal.

Yeah. A hundred percent. And definitely knowing your target market, if you're catering to empty-nesters at all, I think it is critical to have ways that are most convenient for them, which yeah, they're not going to want to spend time on the computer. And I actually find myself, I hate the phone, but I use it. But I've been finding when I have a question for a business, I don't want to email them. I want to call because I had get so much email that I do a contact form. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm ever going to see that response. I know they'll respond to me, but I feel like it's going to get lost in a filter somewhere in my email where I just want to call and get an answer. So I'm starting to see the light of why people actually want to call right now and talk on the phone. Cause you'd get immediate, immediate information

You do. And I think that makes a big difference, especially now because I have like the same thing. Like I'll, I'll submit a contact form for something. And then I don't know if I'm gonna hear back. Sometimes you don't like, and it's just easier to just pick up the phone. And I remember being terrified to call clients in the beginning and they, and I had to remind myself, these people reached out to me. They want to hear from me. So like, why do I not want to use the phone? And it's not like I'm cold calling them, you know?

Exactly. And I always start my conversation out. Like if I get the email or if I get their voice message, I'll leave a nice message. They'll say, I'm sending you an email to reach back out to me. Whatever's most convenient for you. And if they answer, I introduced myself and I always ask them is now a good time. Um, which I think is just like the easiest thing we can do to basically get permission to be like, okay, yes, they, they want to talk to you. You're giving them an out. You're not bothering them. They're not like trying to get out the door or do something like you're asking them is now a good time. And they'll say yes or no. And if they say, no, you can ask them, you know, is there a better time that we could chat? Because yeah, it's just, it does it, it provides a level of service that sets the value up for your business and what you offer above and beyond the people that are maybe doing more volume or even offering what we're offering. But not, they're just not people like to have people like to feel special. Then I think by you taking the time, even though it's 30 seconds to call and leave a message and I get the same thing, 95% of the people I call, they don't pick up. Um, it's always surprising when they do. And I always have that nervous moment. I'm like, yeah,

Right. You actually answered the phone. This is strange. Yeah.

So what happens after that initial phone call? Let's say you leave a message kind of what's that process then after.

Sure. So like you said, 95% people don't pick up the phone, it's very, you know, and then you get flustered when they do no, man, I gotta be on it now, but it's true. So most of the time I leave a voicemail and then I follow up with an email and the email basically says, you know, Hey, I got your contact form or I got your message or whatever I reached out to you left a voicemail would love to chat with you about a session with me. And I give them brief information. Like I like to start with the planning session, which I tell them briefly what that is. It's a complimentary appointment to make sure that we're a good fit. So I'm the whole time I'm running this. Email's not a long email, but everything is, is catered to them to make sure that I want to make sure that we're a good fit. That I'm the right photographer for them, you know? And that this is a complimentary appointment. So you don't have to book me all these things, you know? And, um, and I'll say, you know, please reach out to me like, like you said, you know, whichever is more convenient via phone, via email, and we can chat more about planning session and what you're looking for. And, and then I kind of leave it with them for a little bit. And then if I don't hear for several days, I'll follow up again with an email. Typically I don't want to just call them and call them, call them. I won't do any business via text message though. And I don't like doing it via social media as well. So if they do reach out to me those ways, I'll try to divert them to, Hey, email me or call me. Yeah,

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great solution or strategy because if you're trying to manage all these different channels, things are going to get missed and people are usually super understanding. And when you say, Hey, do you mind emailing me that way? I always just blame it on Facebook messages are pretty fickle. Sometimes I don't always get them.

It's true. It's true. It's true. Yeah. Yeah. So typically people do email me back after the first round, but I have had people that are like, Oh, I totally missed the first email. You know? So don't feel like if they don't email you back or call you back initially that it's just over, sometimes things do go into the junk folder or, you know, and so, yeah, exactly. So, and I don't like, I'll send an email and say, if it's on a Monday and they don't respond, then I might send one out, maybe like Thursday or something and I'll give them a few days to, you know, find it if they don't find it. And then some people you won't hear back from because maybe they're just price shopping. But for the most part, if they've contacted me, I'm going to hear something. Yeah. You know, as to, okay, I want more information. And then from there we go into the, okay, here's how the process works and I'll get them on the phone and I'll talk to them about the planning session, what, what that appointment entails. The fact that it's complimentary is very big because people don't feel the pressure of, okay, I've got a book. You and I, and I like the planning session. I just, one of my favorite appointments, it's one of the most important appointments I feel like, because it allows me to really get to know that person, that pet and to figure out if we are a good fit. And a lot of times I can do that over the phone now just from talking to someone, but that's also where I can get them fully invested and I can turn that from that potential client to that. Yeah.

And, um, when you were doing them in person being able to see the artwork again, provides that value and they start to fall in love with Oh, start to picture. And that would look really nice in my house.

Right. Yeah. For sure. And those are questions you ask too during the planning session. So you, even if they don't know, they start to think about it. So it already like starts the sales process, even though you haven't exchanged any money, you haven't necessarily booked a calendar date, but it's already getting them thinking, which is super important.

Yeah. One of the first things I ask anyone that inquires with me is have you given any thought to what you want to do with your final images and 90% of the time they're like, aha, not really sure. Like they just, they know they want to do something, but they don't even know what's out there. Which when they say that it's just leaves the door open to explain, Oh, well let me tell you about what I specialize in most of my clients, which is my favorite phrase to say, when I'm talking to clients, most of my clients like to do XYZ. And you know, if you've had one client, guess what that's most of your clients. Right? Exactly. So with COVID have you changed, are you doing your pre-session consults on the phone now or zoom or how's that?

Yeah, so it's been, it's been interesting for sure. I definitely have been doing more virtual. Uh, I have done several planning sessions. In-person recently actually. And we, we masked up and we kept our distance and, you know, cause part of the way I do it is when the planning session, if I'm photographing at the client's home, I do the planning session typically at the home. So I can scout the location in advance, either wall space, things like that. But this one was at the studio recently. It was a white golden retriever. He was absolutely horrible, but I want him to see the studio and I want them to see, you know, the artwork and I it's it's to get the, you know, the dog comfortable, the people comfortable with me. So it was very interesting with the masks and everything. But, uh, I did do it, you know, we sanitized, I just, it's hard to do a planning session virtually not to get the information I can easily do virtually it's the meeting of the people in the pet, which I really hate to not do, but of course I've done it, uh, because it, it just is what it is right now. And then things were getting better. So that's why we did it in person and now they're getting worse. So, you know, but I've done more, um, sales sessions actually via zoom. Yeah. And it's been just fine, you know, it's just the same way, except I share my screen and you know, so I've been doing more of those virtually than planning sessions. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, I think it's going to go more that way pretty quick, unfortunately, but we have the option.

Yes. It's very, very fluid and flexible and it is good to have a plan. And you know, this is, I guess, more advice for the time we're in right now to, or I've been giving my clients lots of options of, you know, because I would be comfortable with them coming to my sales room and, you know, wear a mask and keep our distance. I could even open a window. It's beautiful time of year now here. Or, you know, I give them the option to do online sales. So just giving them that option, I feel like makes them feel like, you know, they get to do what's comfortable for them as long as you're comfortable with it. I mean, you, number one, you have to figure out what you're comfortable for in your business and then figure out your options from there.

Yeah, definitely. I think that's super important as the, um, making sure that you're comfortable first because I know that some people and I, this has happened in elevate, you know, where it was at the beginning of COVID and I heard some people were shooting and then people were, their clients were refusing to wear masks and it was like, Oh, I've never encountered this before. What do you do? It definitely is figuring out your own comfort level first and whatever you're comfortable with, then getting those options. I think it's super important because you have no idea what your client is going to be comfortable with. So you don't just want to be like, this is the option, right? Come here. Yeah. To like when you're shooting. I mean, this was a big conversation we had in elevate too, was okay. Well, when I'm shooting and wearing a mask, it's really tricky because it's hard to use my noise makers. You know, if you're outside of your distance, you can probably take it off. But like I did that, that she, with a white gold retriever recently in the studio and we both were wearing masks and I did tell my client, we were like 12 feet apart. And I said, I am going to have to take it off to make some noises. And they were like, it's fine. You know, we were further, but it was tricky. It was, you know, and they got put it back on and

I know it's worth it. You know? It's crazy. Yeah. No, it's definitely, definitely helpful that we can still be working with them, happy to wear a mask, to still continue to be able to do what we need to do. Right. Thanks again, for sharing your process with us, Kim, is there any thing that you really want to stress or like the most important piece of this inquiry process that you want to get across to everybody? Sure.

Well, thank you for having me, by the way. That's always fun. So just one of the things too, I know we've talked about people not wanting to be on the phone and not wanting to bother these people that are actually reaching out to you and what you're wonderful, you know, pep to fee, but you have to follow up. You know, a lot of people will say, well that didn't hear back and I don't want to bug them. And you know, you need to follow up. People want to hear from you. And so I'm not saying like, don't be like a political phone call that calls you like 10 times a day, but you know, which I've been getting a lot. Um, but you, you still want to follow up. And if at some point they reach out and say, yeah, I don't want to do it fine, but don't just let things fall through the cracks because people do actually want to hear from you. So make sure that you are trying to follow up with those people that have contacted you. And then following up to after, like, if you have a planning session, you know, getting them to secure that date to book, don't be afraid to ask, you know, if you ask the worst thing they can say is no, I'm not going to do it. But for the most part, if you get them in for a planning session, even if it is a virtual planning session, if they take the time to spend with you, even though no money is being exchanged, I guarantee you, the majority of people are going to book. If they take the time to do a planning session with you. So you found that yes, they're getting invested in the process. So don't skimp and not do a planning session for one, but follow up, make sure you can get that planning session. And then at the very end you just ask, okay. So when do you want to schedule your session? And you can convert them that way. It's, it's really a very simple process. And it's it's once you do it a few times, if you're nervous, you'll get better at it. You know? And it's, it's not that hard to ask. The worst thing you could do is not ask in that book.

Yeah. I think the hardest part for everyone is not the process at all. It's what's going on between their ears, that the self-talk that they give themselves about making up stories of, Oh, these people are never going to want to book me. Oh, why would this person pardon me? Oh, they're definitely, they didn't get back to me because they think my work is terrible and they think I'm overpriced and Oh my gosh, I should lower my prices. And who am I to be charging this? And all of that stuff comes up. Right. But it has nothing to do with what's actually going on. So yeah, when you guys start to have these crazy thoughts, just stop. And remember these people contacted me. They are interested in learning or from an, um, you know, working with me and to help maybe have that cemented a little bit more. I want all of our listeners out there. I want you to think about something that you were excited to purchase. Something that you were really excited to do or to purchase. And you, you know, put in your inquiry and you're waiting and you had to get confirmation from somebody, you know, were you excited or bothered that they contacted you back when you're anxiously awaiting for, if our information pretty positive that you were pretty excited to hear back from them. And likewise, if you heard back from them and it was like, Oh man, I really want to do that. But I really can't afford that right now. Are you going to sit there and say to that person, like, ah, no. And have this like horrible. Just like not, I don't even know what the right word is, but this just like festering feeling like they are just wronging you because that's what they charge. No, you're probably gonna say, man, I can't do that right now, but I'm going to save my money and I can't wait to come back. And I don't know Kim, if you have this, but I find a lot of my inquiries. If they don't book me. Now, the people that say I'll manage this more than I expected, not everyone, but more than a few have come back to me a year or two later and booked in the future.

Yes, no for sure. And you think that, Oh, I lost that person because I, you know, getting into your head again. Right? You can't worry about it because I've definitely had that happen. I had a lady who came to me two years after she had initially even heard of me. And I always ask, it's always a good idea to say, how did you hear about me? Because you never know where people are finding you. And she heard about me from my, I do the, um, every once in a while, Neiman Marcus will have SPCA adoption. So we do it every year, our daughter doing it this year. But every, you know, they have an artist to do the windows and I've been able to do it four times now. And so my art is hanging and I've done photography. I've done encaustic art. Um, but my name is right on the window. And she saw me there years ago and it took her two years to come to me, you know, but it's still out there. You know, I've had people save up. I mean, I do offer peanut plans, all things that you can tell people. And it it's, it's totally fine. I mean, as long as you're getting the word out and people will convert at some point, hopefully don't take two years like that one lady, but she was a great sale. So it was worth the wait. But, um, but yeah, I know some people will take longer than others for sure, but it's really important to, to do that process and to have them go through it. And then another thing is to be very transparent, I found about how you work, make it very easy to understand what's expected of them and a view. I think it's very important to be transparent about your pricing because the worst thing is if somebody comes in and they love everything, you've shot and then they see the pricing and they're like, I can't afford that. I mean, who wants that feeling? That's awful.

Yeah. That's awkward for you and for them. And they walk away with a bad taste in their mouth. You feel guilty and horrible and want to lower your prices, then just like deal with them. Yeah. And one other quick thing that came up the other day in one of the, the Academy group or the elevate group, um, I think it was the Academy group was when you're sharing your prices with people, a lot of us feel like we need to share our price and then explain why we cost what we cost. But our clients don't care. They don't care. You don't need to explain it. You should just share. This is what the process is. This is what it costs. And then shut up, process it for a minute and ask them if they'd like to schedule their day.

And you made a good point right there. The shut up part is when you're doing a planning session, you don't want to talk about yourself. There's a lot of places in there where you need to just be quiet. And when you give the pricing is one of them. And, uh, I did have one, uh, husband come once and he goes, why is it so expensive? And you know, you kind of do have to address that question when it's directly at you. And I just said to them, and I said, you know, my work is an investment in art for your home. And that's all I said and I just boom done. And he was like, okay, but you can't the moment you let self doubt creep in and you start trying to explain what my costs are. This don't position for them.

No, like you're not going to walk into a Lamborghini dealership and be like, why is this car? So

For this or the Kia, right? No, totally. Because you think about all the range you have out there. I mean, where do you want your brand to fall within that scheme? And if it's, I mean, we have Guinea or, you know, Ferrari. Yeah. It's going to be expensive. It is. It is. Yeah.

Yeah. And they're not making deals. Yeah. So yeah. Oh man, this could go into quickly,

Big

Back. We'll talk about that. But um, thanks Kim, for being with us, let, um, our listeners know where they can find,

Well, you can find my [email protected] and it's H a R T Z. I always have to spell it like the tin colors or the fried chicken, no religion, but they usually have people and I'm on Instagram,

Kim heart's photo. And then you find it on Facebook too. Kim heart's photographer. Nice.

Excellent. And then of course, Kim, you have pet photography, EDU, and the hair of the dog Academy and then the hair of the dog shop. And then we also have you as a coach in the hair of the dog elevate program to help photographers go further, faster with their business. So thanks for being with us. And I'll talk to you soon. Thanks. Hey, everybody, Nicole here from hair, the dog and I am here with Marka Moffitt from dirty dog photography in Seattle, Washington. If you're saying Nicole, wait, that sounds familiar. I think you've had her on the podcast before. Yes. Yes. In fact, I have Mark has been on from episode number eight, talking about collaboration, which was so good. Must listen and episode 33, talking about community over competition. Also a must listen. And I realized that I've just given you guys a gazillion mussels and episodes from this one episode before we even get to this. But before you go to those stick around for more inquiry talk, Mark out. Welcome to the podcast

Again. Thank you. It's always wonderful to be here. I love traveling. Yeah.

Yes. It's always awesome to have you here. Always so many good conversations. So yeah. So today we're talking about inquiries because you are also a coach in the hair of the dog elevate program where we help photographers really get a handle of their business and, um, grow their business and get the support that they need for that. And we were talking about focusing this past fall on leads, which lead to sales, but there's a very important missing step in that leads and sales. And that is how you manage your inquiries. So you actually had the brilliant idea of let's all, let's make some inquiry help for our elevate people, which is just exciting and awesome. And then I thought, Oh my gosh, I think the whole hair of the dog community needs to get a little sneak peek at the inquiry process that we all use in our business. So thanks for being here to share that,

You know, I love talking about anything, so I'm happy about it.

Nice. I love it. I love it. Well for those that maybe have not listened to our previous podcasts from you yet, tell us a little bit about your business and where you are and all that good stuff. Yeah.

So I am a pet photographer in Seattle and I really focus on the story. I've really, I've built my business around story and my favorite product is my portrait book. And so everything I do is really just about creating this beautiful book for my clients. I do a lot of other things too, but my that's my heart work. I love to learn my client's stories and to help them create a way so that when their pets are gone. Cause we all know that happens eventually that they can stay connected to their pet stories through looking at this book and sharing it with other people though.

I love it. No one else I love is that I just had Kim on and we all have similar businesses, but very different because you love the book. I am a huge fan of the wall piece. Kim's focus is also the wall piece. So it's, it's just so interesting to me. And one of my favorite things is just that how everyone's business can be built really around what they love and what they want to, you know, bring forth in the world and serve their clients with. And you know, so if someone is like, Oh, I really, I'm not feeling albums. You don't have to sell albums. Same thing with like, I'm not really feeling like metal. Like I know people love metal for whatever reason. I have never liked my work on metal. So I don't offer it. Somebody, somebody asks I'll get it, of course, but it's not something I,

Yeah, I just had my monthly elevate coaching call yesterday and we talked all about building packages and my big focus around building packages is to build it around that thing you love, what is it that you want every single client to have? And because you're, if you were trying to sell something you don't love, you're not going to sell very many of it, but, and it was such a great conversation. And we actually went two hours talking and just going through it. Cause I showed everybody my, sort of my journey of building of my packages over the past few years. And it just, I think it opened a lot of people's eyes to what's possible, but it's that exact thing I asked. Everybody's like, what's your favorite product? And they're totally different answers. And it was so cool to see that and see, as you can build your business around those things and share it with the people that you're working for and they will trust you. Yeah.

Yes. And one little side note, even though this isn't, that's kind of inquiry related is that we're talking about like what our signature product is. And I look at so many pet photographer sites and there's beautiful pictures. There is no signature product to be found. I think a lot of us miss the boat at talking about what it is we actually do because yes, we're pet photographers, but there's some more than that. Like we need to be talking about what we really do in order for, you know, for people to get excited about, you know, working with us. Awesome. All right. So let's jump back to your business. You love the portrait book. So you're focused on products doing in-person sales. So Mark, tell us a little bit about how your business is structured.

Yeah, so I am definitely a lower volume, higher price sort of thing. I'm not quite sure if I'm the highest price pet photographer in Seattle or not. I haven't done gotten that deep into research, but I know I am up there. Uh, and that's just, I D I decided that from the start from the start, that, because I believe that price for the life you want. Um, and so for me, I, I, I would love to have like consistently just four clients a month. That's great. I love that. Cause there are a lot of other things that I do that are not client-based they're community-based with ridiculous.

Listen, listen to episode eight, everybody. And so that takes a lot of money

It's time. And so I have to be higher price to be able to afford, to do all of the things that I'm not getting paid for because they're giving them, but they are really important to me. And I am very, it's a word, the process working with me. It's not like a show up. We're done goodbye. It's a high, we have a lot of touch points. We're going to get to know each other. I care about my clients and I care about their pets. I cry with them in there. There's a sales sessions, you know, and I, and I care very deeply about them and, and I'm also just a super emotional person. So I take on a lot of emotions from people. And that's also a way, I don't know

Last name. I can't cry that much in a month, even though they're happy tears because you love them. Um, and then it happens to me too, every, uh, every slideshow, if they start to cry

Well, and it's really interesting, like over zoom watching, I am really loving doing zoom sales sessions, watching my clients watch the slide show because they can't, they're not looking at me and they don't necessarily see me looking at them because they're like, yeah. So it's, it's been really interesting shifting everything from in-person to in-person over the internet, right? Yeah. But yeah, so I'm definitely probably more boutique style, except I don't have like a storefront. I'm all it's, you know, everything's portable. And right now everything is just right here in my office where I'm under my blanket.

It's the best way to beat my pajama pants on. I made a mess for home offices. I love it. I love it. Awesome. So since we're talking about inquiries here, go ahead. And I, um, let's start with kind of your website at the beginning of the inquiry process and, uh, give us some look into what that looks like.

I use a lead capture form. I use 17 hats as my client management system. So I have a lead capture form, which is the, and I also people can email me as well if they want, but I prefer that they go through the lead capture form because it creates a little profile. And I have a, uh, an email that gets sent to them when they fill that out, that actually invites them to book a consultation with me. And once they book their consultation, which is over zoom, uh, they get an inquiry guide that has, it looks almost exactly like my pricing, my full pricing guide, except it doesn't have full pricing. It has starting pricing. And it has information about what the whole process of working with me as like, it's probably five, maybe five pages. It's not, there's not a lot. There's not a whole lot in it. It's a pretty fast read, but it has photographs of actual products of mine, of clients, product products. And, and also I have a link to a landing page that has a video of my portrait book sample and it's, and it gives like, Hey, this is the most loved product or the most loved way that my clients enjoy their images from their session. And this starts at two$2,500. And so I'm giving that number straight off the bat because I that's what I want everyone to do. And I want them to kind of recognize, okay, to do this experience, thoughts about what it's going to be. And then w and then during our zoom call, we're going to talk about pricing and more detail. And we're going to talk about all the products I'm going to show them. What's possible. We go through, we look at my packages and more importantly, it's the opportunity for them to tell me what they're looking for and to tell me about their pet and about just their whole story. And then they can ask me any questions that they want to, Oh, I forgot one step before the consultation. I'm sending them a questionnaire. So this is, I have gone through a whole process this year of shifting my inquiry process because of COVID. And also because for the last couple of years, I was sending my pricing in that first email. Right. And even this year up until I think July is when I was sending price full pricing. And then I had an email process where I was like checking in and I was still trying to get them to do a consultation. Right. And people were not doing the consultation because they were getting that full pricing and they were not getting me. And I need to tell you about this brain download. I had this week, I have realized that this process is sort of like when you're out on vacation and you're looking for somewhere to eat and you're checking out the menus on the, on the windows of restaurants. And you're completely judging that menu based on what, you know, because if you don't record, if you don't know all the words that are on the menu, cause you're never eating the thing, you're going to be like, okay, I will go over here and look at the price and see if I can, you know, or I'll just look through the menu to see something. I recognize chicken. Okay. I know what chicken tastes like, but if you don't go inside and speak to a human being who has, who works there and, and can tell you what can recommend something to you and can, and say, this is what this tastes like. Or here, let me show you like, this is what a lot of people love. This is what I love. It's our responsibility as business owners to get butts in seats and tell them what the specials are and tell them what our favorite thing is. And, and to ask them, what do you like to eat? What is your favorite taste? What do you not like? Like, we can't do that if you're, if you rely on your menu just to be there, to, to, to bring people in. So

I love that, that parallel, especially as someone who loves to go out to eat and misses that terribly from this whole COVID situation. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's true. You go to certain restaurants and you're like, I don't really understand this menu, but it's supposed to be really good. And then you start talking to the server and you know, yeah, you're loud. I love this, I love this, but I don't really love that. What do you recommend? And then they're telling you about these different menus and all of a sudden, you're like, Oh, I want all of these things now. And it, it builds the experience. Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you noticed a big difference then from pre July sending the pricing, as soon as they inquire to now where you're bringing them along.

Like my, my journey over the past couple of years has been like that. Just sort of this going through the process and coming up against challenges. Like at first it was like, Oh my gosh, everybody's ghosting. Like, they're just not emailing me back. Oh my gosh. And then there's so many people were like, don't ever call me, do not call me. I'll never answered the phone or, or anything. And I'm, I'm kinda like, I wanna meet my client, meet these people where they're at. So I want to do what, what makes them comfortable. Um, but I know now at this point, you guys, we need face to face. So I was implementing things to, to, to try to see if I could just get them to respond to me. I would rather them tell me no than nothing. So

I can at least close the lead and ask them to just say, okay, thanks. See. So follow up and, Oh, sorry. Just real quick. I just wanna to jump in with the, like, when people say no, it's always a great opportunity to just, you know, thank them for getting back to you and letting them know, like, if you do have like any limited edition sessions or shorter, probably like smaller price sessions or special events, you can let them know and basically ask permission. Hey, is it okay if I reach out to you when this happens in the future, they always say yes. And I was just talking to Kim on, um, her inquiry process about how some people say no now, because it is out of their price range now, but they're going to come back in a year or two and become a client in the future.

Absolutely. That, and that's what I discovered in that, in the process of shifting my mindset from like, Ooh, I feel weird about continuing to reach out to like, I will reach out until they say no, they've reached out to me for a reason. And so it's, it comes down to figuring out what, what things you can say in your emails to invoke a response. And, and then it came down to people saying, yeah, right now it's not the right time. Or, or that they would actually say, you know what? I love everything you do. And I, I think that it's totally worth it. It's just not in my budget right now. But right. So then I know that that person is a, maybe at some point. And so exactly what you just said, that it's, you, you need to find these things out so that you can have this running list of this person was interested. I'm doing this special thing. I should reach out to them and find out, and it would make that person feel so good to know that you thought of them. And so that's sort of where I was at. In like February, I was like, finally, I was getting this great system of people responding, but, uh, but they still weren't booked. They weren't getting to the point where they could talk to me face to face. And so over the summer, all my, a lot of inquiries that was sort of having their, like, they were responding, but they're like, it's just not in our budget at this time. And I just was like, I just want to talk to you so I can, we can go through this process. So then I shifted and I stopped sending full pricing and I, and it was basically, you want to see full pricing. We're going to, we'll talk about it in person or face over zoom. And I've had several inquiries over the, since I shifted this that were, even though they didn't book, they were some of the best consultations I've ever had because we've really got to speak. And I got to hear from them. And they, they were really impressed with the process because I ask important, I ask questions that they've never been asked before. Just like many of us do. It's like what questionnaires are. And so they they've, they're already thinking about this cause they filled their questionnaire out before we've met face to face. And so they're already thinking about it and they already, I think I had one person say, you know, the questions you asked made me understand how much you care. And I was like, that's the best thing I've heard all year. And so for me, and I, and I tell my, I tell people in my consultation, I was like, whether we work together or not, like, that's okay, it's okay if we don't work together, if I totally understand, but I'm, I just want to let you know, that is really awesome. That you're just that you're going to do this, that you're going to have portraits taken of your dog or with your dog. You're going to be so happy that you did it. And I really hope that we get to work together, but if we don't that's okay. Cause I never want anybody to ever feel bad about not being able to work with me if it's a budget reason for sure. But I'm also not going to budge on my, on, on my, my pricing. So yeah,

Yeah, yeah. It was created for a reason. Yeah. So on that inquiry questionnaire, what are the, like your one or two favorite questions to ask people?

I want a newer one that I have is, uh, tell me about your pets name. Oh, that's a great one. Yeah. And always the story. Yeah. Because if, if they are, if it's a name they didn't pick because they got it from the, it was the name their dog came with. Right. And they might then share that story. And this is actually something I'm going to be adding new things because we actually, in our, we had our first ever elevate yapping the hour last night, which is the best name ever. It was super fun. Um, and we were talking about social media and captions and how like that can be a big hangup for people. Cause they're like, I just don't know what to say. I was telling everyone was like, this is the opportunity to have your clients create that content for you is on your questionnaire. Ask them questions that will set you up for great captions. Like ask them something like in one sentence, tell me your favorite thing about your pet or in three sentences or less. Tell me a story about like the naughtiest thing your pet ever did and just things like that. So that it's a it's captioned bubble. Like you can take that later when you're sharing a portrait from their session or if it's like, when you're asking them about, Hey, what, uh, what are some of your favorite characteristics of your pet that you, you want me to capture and in, and give a little bit more and draw out a little more information about like, why do you love your dog's nose? Or like, what is it about your dog's tail or your dog's ears or blah, blah, blah. And then when you're going to share that on social media, you're going to take that and you're going to quote it and, and that's just, and then of course you can ask an engaging question later in your caption to get more people to, you know, to engage with you, but it's using your questionnaire to draw out. Those sorts of things is really cool,

Worked so perfectly in your brand to have your focus on the story and then asking people to share these stories. And that's really what makes the connection between us and our clients is then they're sharing these personal things with you. And then that automatically kind of elevate you from person they're doing business with to more of a friend level and they become more comfortable and you become more comfortable and then you're just creating magic. Yeah. I love it. I love it. So I think the biggest hang up for people in the inquiry process is trying to get actual human to human verbal conversation in person on zoom, on the phone in some manner for that consult. Yeah. What have you found that's works to actually get them to, to take that step? Because once I was talking to Kevin about that, and once they do commit to that consult her and I both have found that a high percentage of people do then move forward and continue with the process and book with us. But there's a lot of inertia to get over, to get that.

Okay. Yeah. I think it, uh, it's hard because everybody's so different and it also comes down to us individually what our comfort level is in inspiring people to get on zoom. Or,

And I, I think this is where a lot of people's their head, their mindset really gets in the way, because they're already telling themselves stories often when that inquiry comes in, how many times does an inquiry hit your inbox guys? That you're just like, Oh, they're not going to bug me. Like you say that to yourself before you even get back to them, like, what kind of intention are you putting out to that email and that energy to getting back to them when you already, you're starting to think that. Yeah. And yeah. And we just tell ourselves all those stories of, uh, Oh, they're gonna think I'm too expensive. Oh, they're not getting in touch with me because of this. That maybe they've just been busy. Maybe they're on vacation, maybe who knows. Yeah.

Well, this is where I think it, can you using questions in your inquiry form if you're using an inquiry form, if you're, I mean, sometimes people just straight up email you, but by starting the process, they're asking, asking some sort of question that gets them to start sharing their story. One of mine is, is to, I think the big question right now that I have on there is asking them, what would it mean to you to have a photo of a photo session of your pet? And I think when I had before was tell me about how your pet became a part of your life. That one always gets. Um, and I can tell by if someone is like, Oh, uh, bottom from the creator, they're like, okay, we, we still move forward. Maybe they're just in a hurry, but if they're telling me a story already, then I'm like, okay, there's a better chance that they're going to want to talk to me and tell me more. So I think that it's a matter of starting that process and then continuing that in your fir in your initial email to, uh, to invite them, to meet with you, to talk about the process, if you just make it a fact that like, this is how like to get to the next step we do need to meet. And if they are serious about it, they're going to do it. Yep.

And then I think the other key is probably highlighting the benefits for them, of why they want to, like, why do they want to take 20 minutes or half an hour or more out of their very busy schedule to do this? So we have to, we have to highlight why it's beneficial to them. When you were saying about that inquiry. It made me think of something I heard literally earlier today in a training, I was listening to that, getting someone to have a little commitment leads to a bigger commitment later. So getting them to have this little commitment on your inquiry form just buys them into that process with you just a little tiny bit more than if it was just like, send your email. Okay. Hey, and then it's the same exact response to everybody. Yeah. I love that. Okay. So they do their inquiry form. You send a little questionnaire and book the consultation, and then at the consultation, do you then book the session with them on the consultation? How's the rest of that?

So I have found, I usually, they usually do still need a little bit of time because this is when they've seen my full pricing for the first time. And I show them all of my products and I, we, I learn so much about them and their, their pet and what they would like to have captured. And, and we just talk a lot and it's like 20 to 30 minutes. It depends on the person and how talkative they are. And I really want, I always want to respect their need for time. So I, we just, at that point, we discuss how many days they need and whether or not they're going to follow up or I'm going to follow up. I just, I, at that point I kind of let them lead it just because they know what works best for them. If I don't hear from them on the day that they say, then I do follow up for sure. But I do follow up after the call and say, it was so nice to meet with you. I'm looking forward to, uh, the next steps.

Yeah. Excellent. I love that.

If they're ready to book, if they say, okay, we want to do it, then we do that. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Like, all right, well, let's pick out a date. Are you doing the consultations in person or were you before 2020?

Yeah. Before my last in-person called siltation was at the end of January. Yeah. And everything is over zoom now. And I honestly might continue that. Um, because I mean, I have two right now, but I want you to right now is if you're in an area where you're still doing things in person and you can safely, that's great. Still learn how to do it over zoom. Because I think, I think we, this is an opportunity for us to become more flexible and understanding for clients, um, who may need that. They may, it may work better for them to meet over zoom and doing your sales session. I thought that I was nervous about it, right. Uh, yeah. I had a$6,000 sale over yeah.

One of my biggest ones over zoom too. And it doesn't get in the way, the only challenge, which has it been a challenge for you because you know, they're not able to feel and touch and hold the products. Are you taking those to the session?

I did. I brought my book to the session. I still have to be careful with COVID some like just some people are maybe not don't want to, but I have done a beautiful video of my book. So peanut. Okay. And I sent, they see that it's on my website, but then also I send it to them in that, in the inquiry process so that they can watch the pages being turned in our consultation, if I'm showing them. And if they are kind of like, we would love to see that person, then yes, I will bring it to them in. Perfect. Perfect.

Yeah. Perfect. I love it. And I think the biggest, well, there's a lot of takeaways here. Definitely. One takeaway is guys, we need to be talking about what it is we sell. We need to be talking about what the final product of this session is because people have no idea. All of a sudden they're like, Oh, I love my dog. I do want pictures. They might see somebody else's pictures on social media or somehow, you know, if you have stuff out in the community, but rarely, rarely do I get customers coming to me already knowing I know I want a wall piece in an album and this and that. And I love those customers that do, but they're few and far between

Usually a referral. Some you did it for somebody else and they're like, I want what they have for they're repeat clients. They're like, I have a new dog and I'm ready for it. Yeah.

And I say, excellent. But yeah, we need to be talking about that and not just talking about, I take pretty pictures. Yeah. I love it. Thanks so much for sharing all of this with us. Marker. Is there anything else that you want to share? You know, the it's important for all of our listeners?

Well, I think just take care of yourselves. We've got two more months of 2020 right now, two more months, years there's even, no matter what year it is. I know we, I mean, we're a business owners where we hustle. You remember to take time off. That's my big lesson right now. I gotta, I gotta take, I gotta do is eat an equal amount of rest as I do hustle. So yeah.

Yes. Self care is so critical, especially with all the craziness that's going on in the world right now. Definitely take care of yourself. Yeah.

And one other thing we always like to end with a call to action. Right? If you aren't currently doing zoom consultations and go ahead and find a friend and practice. Yeah. It's fun.

Yep. Yeah. And then the sales zoom, I mean, I know this is inquiry podcast one, but the sales zoom, I have found my process for my in-person zoom sales is exactly the same as my in-person normal sales. There's only one caveat that I didn't realize at first. And that is in zoom. You have to allow the sound so that your client can hear your slide show music too.

Yeah,

It was, it was like April, like, Oh man, I've done since zooms. Cause I've done some zooms for far away clients, which also even not in a global pandemic, one of the reasons to get comfortable doing that is because then you can serve people that are further that maybe you're going to travel to you for the session, but they can't travel to you for a consultation and the session and a sales session. So it's just a good business practice to know global pandemic or not leveling up in 2020, whether we realize it in the moment or not. Yes. Yeah. And one other thing too, just a little reframe for you guys too. Cause I know sometimes it's scary being an entrepreneur and a business owner in crazy times and you're like, Oh my gosh, I don't know. Like I'm the only one responsible for making myself money, but your responsible for making your money and you don't have to rely on another business that you have no control over that they might just one day be like, Oh, we're closing up your department's cut up. You're out of a job that you have so much more control here and that we are a small business that we can Zig and zag and move with the market. And so that's, I think something to be super thankful for. That was so good. Yeah. I agree. Awesome Mark again, thank you so much. Let us know where people can find you at dirty dog photography on Instagram and that's D I R T I E. And dirty dog photography.com on the interwebs. Yeah. And on Facebook. Awesome. Excellent. And you can find her as a coach and the hair of the dog elevate program. If you guys are ready to grow your business and get the support that you need to make magical things happen, Mark. I thank you so much again for being with us. We'll talk to you again soon.

Thanks for listening to this episode of hair of the dog podcast. If you enjoyed this show, please take a minute to leave a review. And while you're there, don't forget to subscribe. So you don't miss our upcoming episodes. One last thing, if you are ready to dive into more resources, head over to our [email protected]. Thanks for being a part of this pet photography community.