In today's episode, we are diving into high school senior photography. Now, before you run away and say, nicole, I know photograph seniors, this doesn't pertain to me. Wait, stop. It does. There's a lot of great action rule takeaways that you can apply to any genre that you photograph. And if you photograph equine, well, a lot of the equine market can definitely be high school senior girls and their horse, so you'll definitely want to stick around.

But again, no matter what you photograph, you're going to find some great conversation and some great takeaways in this episode. So stay tuned. I'm Nicole Bagley, a zoological animal trainer turned pet and family photographer. Back in 2010, I embarked on my own adventure in photography, transforming a bootstrapping startup into a thriving six figure business by 2012. Since then, my mission has been to empower photographers like you, sharing the knowledge and strategies that have helped me help thousands of photographers build their own profitable businesses.

I believe that achieving two to $3,000 sales is your fastest route to six figure businesses, that any technically proficient photographer can consistently hit four figure sales. And no matter if you want photography to be your full time passion or a part time pursuit, profitability is possible. If you're a portrait photographer aspiring to craft a business that aligns perfectly with the life you envision, then you're in exactly the right place.

With over 350,000 downloads. Welcome to the Freedom Focus Photography podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Bagley, and today I have a special guest from up north in Wisconsin, Dan Freebault from freebault photography, who is a high school senior wizard. Dan, welcome to the podcast. Glad to be here. Some wizardry while we're here. Lizardry. Yes. Do some wizardry. Yes. I love that term.

That sounds sad. I like that. Yeah. Excellent, excellent. Good. You can feel free to add it to your socials and your website. You can all yours to use. But anyway, yeah, welcome. Can you give us just maybe like a overview of your business, who you serve and where you're based and all that good stuff? Absolutely. So I am from Wisconsin, so you might hear a slight accent. I try not to have that accent, but it just sometimes comes out.

Our O's are just going to come out, you know, don't you know? But yeah, I mean, I'm in Green Bay, Wisconsin, home of the Green Bay packers. And, you know, if you live in Green Bay, it's all we have. So it's, that's why you hear about it all the time. There's nothing else really here. We have a football team, but it's a small town relative. It's like 105,000 people.

And I. My primary niche is high school seniors. So that's what I love to do. I've photographed everything through the years. I've been doing this almost 20 years. Holy cow. Yeah. Like around ten years ago, I said no more of anything else. I just want to focus on high school seniors. And it is very hard in Wisconsin because we have a short season, everyone, because our winters are so long and brutal, everyone kind of hibernates, is what I say.

So then when summer comes, you have weddings, seniors, families. Everybody wants to get everything done. And on top of that, they all want to do fun outdoor activities. So there's so much going on that it gets very stressful because you work your tail off, you know, and the nice time of the year when you don't, when you want to be doing things. And then all summer, you sit around kind of twiddling your thumbs, like, where, you know, where's all the business?

It's so seasonal. Yeah. Yeah. So that's one thing that's very interesting, the way, you know, just our climate is it affects business. But along with that, I just. I didn't want to kill myself all summer any. And working, you know, photographing, you know, a bunch of seniors and then photographing weddings on the weekends, and it just, it. You can get burnt out very easily. So. So I really just sat down one day before I went insane and said, what do I really love doing?

And I love photographing high school seniors. I just, you know, I'm kind of a kid at heart, so that that helps. And I just, I was in sports, I was in music. Like, I did everything in high school myself, so I can relate to all the different hobbies and interests that high school seniors have and really try and incorporate that to tell their senior story. And that's what I like to do in my sessions, is each senior has a unique story, and I want to tell that through imagery.

Yeah, I love it. I love it as a pet equine photographer for a short stint. So I started in 2010, and then I started as family photographer that also just encouraged everyone to bring their dog and then did an occasional dog discussion on the side because I didn't think at the time you could be a pet only photographer. And then for a little bit, I was like, oh, maybe I'll do seniors, too.

So I had. Did a couple, but they always had a horse or a dog. And then, like the equine world, I say a decent number of our sessions end up being high school seniors. What makes. So you, did you do, like, families and stuff, too, before you niche down into seniors? I did, yeah, yeah, yeah. Families. Even volume sports, which is. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did volume sports.

We did, you know, everything. Headshots, commercial weddings, families. Wow. Babies, which I just, you know, we don't have kids. We talked a little bit before we got on, but we don't have kids. And just. Yeah, to me, even having nieces and nephews and, like, holding babies and stuff is just not my thing. Puking and diapers and stuff. I have two kids. I mean, they're older now, but that's not my thing either.

So. Yeah. So that was one thing I just didn't enjoy at all. First baby I actually held was my own. And I'm like, oh, how do I do this? They send you home. You're like, you're really sending me home. I have no idea what I'm doing. Where's the manual? With us? Yeah, exactly. Okay. Like, I have a human now. What? Okay. Yeah, no, it's funny. I had a.

She was more like baby photographer in Pittsburgh assisting me with a session once because I needed. It was like a middle of a February afternoon, and this client, we had rescheduled so many times. And usually you're fine to shoot in the middle of the afternoon of February in Pittsburgh because the sun's never out. But this day, brilliant blue sky, really sunny, there's still a snow pack on the ground.

I'm like, oh, I'm going to need to bring my light. I need an assistant. So anyway, so I brought her with me. And, you know, as I'm setting up the dog for, like, the 10th time, she's like, I don't know how you have the patience to do this. I'm like, I don't know how you have the patience to photograph babies. Like, I'll do this all day. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That's how, you know, you chose the right niche. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. I had a family session similar, and it was like they had a dog, a toddler, and then, like, a three month old, you know, a mom and dad. And I didn't have an assistant with me that day. And it's like, yeah, it's like, you're wrangling this, you're wrangling that. And then at the end of mom's like, you're really good at this.

I'm thinking, oh, my gosh. But then she says, what's the hardest, you know, kind of session? I go, the one I just got done with you. This one. This was the hardest. There's so many things to keep track of, like a senior. It's like, go put that on. Stand over there. Yeah, this I can hear. Move your chin this way. Move your shoulders this way. Oh, listen. Like, you listen.

This is. Listen. Yeah, yeah. It rains. Come back a different day. No big deal. It's not like it's your wedding day and we have to do it today. I love it. So what are the main differences between, like, family and some of your other sessions with seniors? You know, besides the obvious that it's one person versus a whole family. Yeah. Weather, like we said, scheduling, you know, it's so easy to schedule senior, and.

And that is the benefit of photographing in the summer. Yeah. Is their schedules are open, and. And I know when I teach other senior photographers in different regions, it's a little bit different because they're working around the school year and different things, and there's no, like, call to action. There's no scarcity with seniors. What I love is you have that built in scarcity factor. You have. They have to get it done.

The yearbook photos at this time, it's a big event, so they kind of save for it. You know, it's something that, it's like transitioning kind of from the teen to an adult. And, you know, when with families or children, it's like, there's always something else, like, well, we'll come back. We've all heard this, right? We'll come back to order that wall portrait when we have more money, or they're.

This bill just came up and everything. But with seniors, they plant forward. Similar to getting a homecoming dress, similar to getting a prom dress. It's just an expense that they've kind of look forward to and want to invest in. So that is also a great thing with photographing seniors. But, yeah, scheduling, too. It's easy to schedule them. I do a lot of sports stuff in the studio, so they can come in at noon and we can do that.

And then I can have them come back a different time and photograph in the late afternoon to get the glowy sun, flowery fields kind of shots as well. So the flexibility is unbelievable with it, which I love. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. What are the main products? Because, man, I'm thinking back to the mid nineties for my high school senior fortune. It was like wallets, which I don't know if that's still a thing, or now they probably want digital and they swap that way.

So what are the main things that seniors are interested in purchasing these days? Yeah, great question. When I've. So, like I said, I've been doing this almost 20 years. It'll be 20 years this year, and it's changed throughout the years. Like you said, wallets were huge, and they're a huge money maker now that's transitioned into, like, the phone app. So giving the images on the phone app and they share them.

Senior Sunday is the hashtag on Instagram. So that is kind of taken over the wallet. So, like, I've transitioned through the years and doing social media files. I also have an option for digital files. They can print up to eight by ten. Those are like, package deal. But really, the main core money making product that I sell is albums, because, like, I kind of stated in the beginning how I'm telling their story.

So that story fits perfectly into, as we transition from different outfits, different hobbies, different interests that that kind of tells a story like a book. So it fits into an album. Yeah. You know, quite nicely. And when I started, at first, I thought, you know, it was easy to sell an album for a wedding. I didn't think anyone would invest that large a high dollars into an album for a senior.

It was a mental thing I had to get over. I'm like, nope, I'm doing it. And, yeah, it was a pretty easy sell because a lot of people in, back in the day would sell, like, all these wall clusters and wall art. And I still wall, still sell wall art, but it might be one or two images. Yeah. I'm really focusing on selling the album because, you know, I do two three hour sessions, and they're gonna see, like, about a hundred images from that session.

Yeah. And then they narrow them down to anywhere from 30 to 60 images. So that. And they can't let those go. They're like, I can't let these go, but they're not going to put that many images on the wall. No. So I just say, this is why albums are great and there's different tiers of albums. So you have kind of like a package within a package. Yeah. So you can do, like, your base album, which isn't very nice, and then you're, like, nicer ones in the middle, and then your whopper one, which is the huge, like, it's an 18 by twelve.

Holy cow. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, that for you, h and H does all right. Yeah. You can customize the box and the leather, and it's like. Yeah, it's huge. It folds out like a pan. Like a panoramic. That's amazing. Yeah. What's the price point on that? Great question. Because the cost of goods is, like $500 on it. Okay. All right. And for the longest time, I didn't even want to offer it because I'm like, this is just crazy.

Nobody wants it. But I. Again, it's. I don't care if anyone gets it, because it's the psychology of the whopper. You know? It's like the high end thing that makes everything else look better. And then they say, you know, if someone sees that, they're like, someone must buy it, necessarily. Yeah. But it makes the ten by ten and the twelve by twelve albums. Yeah. And once I offered it, yeah.

Yep. Yeah. And once I offered it, yeah. It bumped up my averages. So people did not just. They didn't purchased the eight by eight. Now they started purchasing a ten by ten and twelve by twelve. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so price point on that is like, $8,000 for. For that album. But then everyone else falls into, like, the six in five and $6,000 range. Okay. Of the ten by ten and the twelve by twelve.

All right. I love it. I love it. That's awesome. Yeah, it's funny. I think everyone should have a price anchor type, like, signature piece of, which is funny. I added that for my wall art. A year and a half ago, I started carrying guild cannabis, which is gorgeous, but they're pricey. I mean, they cost me, you know, sometimes upwards of, like, 700, $800 for. Well, it's $900, but it's a 40 by 40, so it's a decent size.

But anyway, they're absolutely beautiful, and I really got them as, like, a price anchor to make everything else, because I had bumped everything else up a little bit, look, like, really affordable. And then the craziest thing happened is everybody started buying the guild canvases. I'm like, okay, so, yeah, absolutely. And that's when I started selling, like, albums, the same kind of thing. I'm like, I'll put this high price on it, and no one's gonna really take it.

And everyone's like, this is fantastic. It's like, okay, time to raise the price on that or to have different albums, because I just had one album. Yeah. If you want it, here it is. You know? Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, you know, same thing with, like, in person sales. When I started doing that, I transitioned to proofs to in person sales. And, yeah, the average just shot up and it's like, holy cow.

Like, yeah, yeah, this, this does work. Yeah, no, I think, like I've been calling it live sales because sometimes it's in person, sometimes it's on Zoom for me. But I'm like, I feel like that is pretty non negotiable once you start to get, wanting to get to multiple thousand dollar sales and even from a service standpoint to provide that service to your clients, to help them choose. Yeah, no, absolutely.

And that's what I tell everyone. This is not a sales session. This is me. I'm a full service photographer. I've helped you through the whole process. Before. They book with me, I meet with them in person. They come to my studio, I do a consultation, I go over all my pricing. I. But more, I want to know who they are again. It's build right away. What story are we going to tell?

So I want to know them. I'm asking the senior, I'm talking mostly to the senior on what their hobbies are, what their interests are, what music. Like, what was their favorite memory so far in high school? Like, I want to get to know them. Yeah. You know, and then if they book a session, I have them come back again. I look at their outfits before their session. Yeah, that helps me to help tell their story as well.

It helps me to connect with them again and meet them and talk to them a few more times before I put that camera up. And it's kind of intimidating. All right, I'm here. Yeah, here's this goofy guy with this long, kind of squirrelly, like goatee and like, let me throw this camera up in your face. It's kind of intimidating. So, yeah, I get to see their outfits. We can make changes, arrangements.

I start to plantain locations because those are all outdoor, because I mentioned I have a studio, but people want things outdoor here in Wisconsin when it's nice. And I do as well. I love it, you know, so we're, you know, helping to kind of build and tell that story. And I'm with them the whole way. And now if I just gave them digital files, like, see you later.

Like, they have to worry about aspect, ratio, cropping, color, you know, all the things that we, we know, but they don't know. And all of a sudden it's a headache for them and they never print anything. Yep. So I just stress that I'm not here to tell you anything. We're going to walk you through the process, help you narrow down your favorites. You're going to get my opinion, you know, if you need my opinion, and I can show you different sizes, I can show you albums, I can show you clusters, and it's just taken care of, you know, for you.

That's the biggest shift that newer photographers need to make because I talked to so many coming into it that they feel like the sales pieces slimy or, like, you know, like they feel bad about it. But if you can flip it to, you know, that you're. It's service. It truly is just service to help your client get the most out of their experience that they've already invested in, then, yeah, it's so much easier.

Yeah. And I look at it as, I'm a foodie. My wife and I are foodies. So I kind of compare, you know, everything. If you're in business, you always compare other businesses or other things, and especially the service industry, if you think of, like, a chef's table, if you've ever done that. No, I trust chef. Here's what I like. They're gonna prepare a meal for me, or if we go out to eat, I'm always, we're, we're always asking, like, the waitress or hostess or whatever.

Like, what's. What's your favorite? What do you recommend? What things are popular here? I like these kind of things. This is my palate. What would you recommend? It's like they're there to help you through the process. They're not selling me a steak. You know, they're not selling me. You want the most important, expensive thing on the menu. Go. Right? Exactly. Yeah. You know, so I look at it the same way.

It's like, hey, if you like, this image in the field is very soft and beautiful. That's your favorite image. I think that should be on a canvas. I'm not trying to sell you a canvas because it's the most expensive item. Yeah. That we went through this whole process to pick outfits, to pick location, to do hair and makeup, to create this scene for you. It. The final piece should be on a canvas, you know, or.

Yeah. Or if it's a, you know, high school senior guy or even girl. And it's this gritty, edgy sport image that we did. We sprayed you down with water. We got eye black on, like, you know, it's like you're tough and rough. You're not smiling. That's going to look great on a metal. Like, it's going to have that impact of just this grittiness. It's going to look cool.

Yeah. And, you know, they, they want to know that. They want to be like, yeah, what's going to, what's going to look the best? What's your opinion? So, yeah, yeah. If you reframe it, and I'm not good at sales. Like, I could probably have higher sales if I was more pushy or more had, you know, maybe better systems, but I'm just good at. We're going to talk you through the process, and I think people, I know people love that because I'm not pushing them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. A lot of times your clients end up having, like, loving. That is one of their favorite parts, you know, so I think everyone's kind of so scared, but it ends up being. It's my favorite. Ends up being their favorite, too. So, yeah, that's really good question for you. With the rise of video, have you incorporated any video into your senior sessions? I have. I do the cinematic senior films.

And kind of interesting story is I was always into photography, and then when I started, I did both photography and video. And those are back in the tape days. Yeah, I guess I keep going back to how long I've been doing this, which is weird. I think that's what happens once we reach a certain age. Let's just say technology has moved fast. Let's just put it. Let's frame it that way.

And, yeah, so I would do video, and with a video camera, and it would take forever. Like, you'd have to, you know, digitize the video, and then you didn't really have a shallow depth of field. It didn't have that cinematic feel. And I would do those for weddings, but have like a 1 minute, you know, recap, which everyone does now, but back in the day. Oh, yeah, not a lot of people did that.

It was just like, you recorded your whole video and you gave them a two hour tape. I'm like, no, that's not how I want to do things, because I also am big into movies and cinema. I always wanted to be in film, like, to be like a cinematographer. That was my kind of goal in Hollywood. Loved it. Yeah. So I was big into that, and so I did, when I did the weddings, that's what I would do.

And then I transitioned into, no, I just love photographing seniors. I'm like, I wonder if there's a way I can do this, especially now with all our cameras come with video, and I have the lenses and the shallow depth of field, and I knew video editing, so I just picked it back up. So long answer is yes. I started incorporating video. It's not as popular here as maybe some other areas, it hasn't really taken off.

I haven't pushed it a lot either, because it still does take more time. And another reason I switched to seniors is dollar per hour. It was much more profitable because. Yeah. Like, my average, you know, my averages and seniors are, like, four or $5,000. It's raised up. Up to. But even when I transitioned, it was around, you know, $2,500, and I was like, I'd rather do photograph two seniors on a Saturday.

Yeah. Than one wedding. Right. No, that's, you know, because that was, like, 6 hours weekend of exhaustion. Yeah. Right. And on top of that, I didn't. I didn't have to do weekends. I would do them all during the week, but I'm like, worst case scenario, I will photograph on the weekends. Yeah. Two seniors. Yeah. Yeah. A dollar. Dollar per hour. It just. Just made sense. So, yeah, I never did weddings.

Probably for the best, but I've, like, I just can't imagine, like, the lead time of. All right. I've just booked a weekend, like, a year from now, and it's just like, it's gone now. I have. I'm working. I know I'm working that weekend. I'm like, no, nope. I'm. I can't. Yeah. Yeah. And I've got so spoiled with my schedule. It's like, you know, Mondays, I photograph boys only because it's a shorter session.

And then Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday will be, like, high school senior girls. And then, like, Thursday, we'll, like, maybe do sales all day. And then Friday, I just keep open in case I need to reschedule or take off for the weekend. Like, I'll do, like, Friday. Like, Friday at noon, I'm done. I love it. That's awesome that you're able to do that, especially because your season's so condensed that you are able to keep that.

Was it hard to, like, keep true to that? Because I know, especially with that condensed season, I would imagine it's easy to fall into, like, especially if you have more sessions coming in, like, oh, all right. Yeah, let me squeeze you in. Kind of like, you know, let's make. Hey, well, the sun's out. Something. Whatever that saying is, like, you have people. I could see myself, like, scheduling way too many, because it's like, well, it's gonna be a long winter, so I might as well make some money now.

But then hating myself for not being able to enjoy my summer. Yeah. It is a. It's a balance, and I did that in the beginning. It's like, one more. One more then I'm like, what if it rains? Like, I am booked type, like, back to back to back. And I did that, and I kind of got a little burnt out for a while when I did that, because I'm like, yeah, I'll squeeze you in.

Yeah, I'll squeeze you in. Right? And then I just. I. What I would do is this is why I teach people. Or, like, it's always interesting when I'm mentoring photographers and stuff, and they said, well, I can't. I'll make that change. Let me back up. Like, I'll be talking about my pricing and different things. They're like, I love that. I'll make sure that incorporate that next year because I already have my pricing set for this year.

And I'm like, you know, like, when you book an airline ticket, like, they're not locked in for the year, it's like, you know, the person sitting next to me either paid more or less than I did. Not the same amount. Yeah, depending on where they bought it and when they bought it. So why, as, you know, photographers, do we feel like we need, like, nope, this is our set pricing, you know?

And, yes, I get it. I'm not gonna, like, show you a price for a portrait, and then when you come back in, double it, but, like, at least the session fee. So I do a sliding scale on my session fee, and it would be like when earlier in the year would be less. And as I filled, when I got to a certain number, I would set a goal, like, if I had this, I knew I needed to photograph at least this amount of seniors at this average to get what I wanted.

My goal is, after that, you're kind of. You're on house money or whatever you want to call it. So it's like you get a little bit more confident, maybe a little bit more cocky. Like, okay, no, the session fee is this, you know, like, now. Like, the portraits are a little bit more, you know, but they. They get that information, and then they can make that decision. And I always tell people if you're booking everyone who calls, your prices are too low.

Like, you need to raise it. You may book every. Get it down to, like, maybe every third call or whatever you're comfortable with, especially once you've met that. That goal, you can get a little bit more. So that's what I would do. I do a sliding scale. It's like, then I'll be like, gosh, they're still booking. Like, this is. And that's kind of what I did for weddings for a while.

Too. I don't want to do weddings anymore, so it's gonna be ten grand to do a wedding. No one's gonna book me. Yeah, we're booking you. I'm like, oh, my gosh. What are you crazy? And then carry that over for the next year. So then I would start my pricing a little bit higher and then go up until you find that, you know, after doing it for a while, you find that sweet, sweet spot of the amount of sessions, the price, the average, so then you don't have to kill yourself.

So you're doing less sessions and making the same, if not more. And you can enjoy, enjoy your life and your time because you don't get that back. So a lot of times in the beginning, you know, I worked and worked and worked and put my business before other things, including, you know, my wife and family and things like that, you know, well, my wife is my family. I should say.

When you start putting those things ahead of that are important, you don't get that time back. So it's like, okay, I need to make some changes. And prices, unfortunately, like, I'm not greedy, but kind of. Fortunately, unfortunately, prices can help you with that. Yeah, no, for sure. Absolutely. I think those are really, really good things to consider. I like it, too, how you mentioned that, as it, you kind of adjust it through the year, but then, like, each year, starting a little bit of a higher spot, because that's an easy way to start to build that confidence.

I know I talk to newer photographers a lot about that, and they're like, you know, we do our math of what they need to be earning per session to hit the goals, the revenue goals they want to hit. But then sometimes, often they're like, oh, my God, I can't possibly charge that. I'm like, fine, where can you charge, like, what feels. Do that. One or two. Move it up, move it up.

And you start to get more comfortable with those incremental changes. So, yeah, and then. And after a couple years, you're just like, oh, yeah, no, we're good here. Yeah, yeah, you can be like, yeah, sorry it didn't work out. But that, the other way I look at it is when I gave up weddings, I'm like, that was a big chunk of income. So I'm competitive. Like I mentioned before, I was kind of in sports.

And so I'm like, what can I do? Like, I just hung up the phone, like, no, I don't do weddings anymore. Or reply to that email, I don't do weddings anymore. But then I didn't just, like, sit back. Like, oh, shoot. I just. That was possibly five grand that I just said no to. Like, what am I doing? You know? But then it would, like, it give me a drive.

Like, okay. The minute I said no to that, I would make a list. Like, okay, I need to maybe call back these people or maybe do a few other marketing things and get a senior and get two more seniors in to fill that void of that income that I just said no to. It wasn't just like, hey, I'm just going to sit back. Like, I have the weekend free.

It's like, you know, it's like, no, now I need to squeeze in a couple more, you know, seniors or, you know, follow up with someone in it. What it also made me realize is it gave me more time to spend with the people who want to spend with me. And so I could do longer sessions. I could do clothing consultations. I could really get to know these seniors.

And that paid off at the end with large sales when I was photographing all those other entities. Those other sessions, I like someone to come in. Here's your outfits. I just met you. Hello. Okay, let's go. Shoot. I have another one in an hour. We need to get back and change. And there was no deep connection, and the orders were less. So, yeah, I did more, but I killed myself.

Now I'm doing less, but we really formed that connection, and people love it. They're hugging me as they're going out the door. Like, this is the greatest experience ever. And I'm going, you just paid me five grand for that. Like, I would have done it for free. This was awesome. Yeah. So true. And, yeah, the more our prices go up, the more that we need to make sure that we're giving them that.

Just incredible. Kind of not exclusive in the terms of, like, exclusive. Like, you can pay and you can't pay, but just, like, exclusive. Like, I don't know, that's not. Maybe not the right term. Just a great experience. Like, knock their socks off. You're able to spend the extra time with them. There's no rushed feelings about the session, that they feel like they have your full attention, so you're able to do that.

And I love the math. When you figure out how much time you're working now versus how much time you're working then, and, like, oftentimes you're making the same amount of money or maybe even making more, working less now because you're taking those experiences so much deeper for everybody. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, moms are the ones generally coming in with. With their senior boys and girls. But you realize that the moms, their whole lives, they've had to kind of do everything.

It's. I hear so much from the moms. Like, it's so great where they can just kind of sit back and kind of enjoy the session, too, where they're not, you know, I'm giving them clothing tips. I'm going through clothing outfits with them. We're talking hair and makeup. Like, I'm taking care of all the things that they feel like they're always stressed and had to do. They can just, like, oh, I can just kind of sit back and enjoy this.

This is great. This is kind of nice, you know? And so, yeah, they love that part of it. And they just love, like, you know, kind of what you were saying before. Photography is weird. Like, someone who has a lot of money isn't necessarily my client. Right. It's if they value photography, as you know, they're gonna do everything they can to scrape and work extra and do whatever to.

To pay for that, because they value it. It's not just because they have the money. I mean, I've had people, we're a farming kind of community, and so I don't judge anyone. Like, someone rolls up in an old rusty truck and they are poor, they're paying cash, you know, you know, someone else pulls up in a luxury vehicle, and normally I'm like, I kind of like, that's probably not my client.

You know, they're not gonna quite appreciate it. And sometimes, you know, they still do. But I never think, like, oh, they have an expensive car. They dressed expensive. They are gonna drop a ton. It's like, nope. They hardly ever. You honestly have no idea? No idea. Like, do not, do not judge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which can make it hard to market because other businesses, they might really lock in their ideal client and their certain price point, you know, median social or their household income, all that stuff.

Photography, as you know, it's not. It could be just. It's kind of a free for all. So. Yeah, no, that's really. That's a really good point. So how do you market your senior photography? Yeah. And marketing has changed through the years. It used to be you would market to the parenthood you would do, you know, you'd buy a list, you know. Yeah, right. Buy a list from a.

Which wasn't very accurate. I don't know where they got the numbers from. You're sending out a mailer to someone that they may have a high school senior. They may not. Yeah. Right. They may not. Who knows? Who knows? Yeah. And then, you know, so you would market a lot to their parents. And then years ago, I don't know who came up with it, but it was like the model team, the ambassador.

They're called influencers now. But you would. You would kind of do a application, and I do this in air quotes because everyone who applied for me, at least, was in. It was just a way to get a few of. A few potential client. Not potential. You would get a few pre qualified clients, and I would get those, like, in March when I wasn't really photographing. But we do.

Would do, like, some cool bonus sessions with them, and they would refer their friends. If they refer their friends, their friends would get a discount. They would get a discount. Yeah. And then that was, like, a. A true way to market because you're leveraging their audience and their friends, and it was a true list. And that was another thing they would do. They'd have to give me a list of, like, 25 names and addresses where I could market to, or then a transition into, like, texting.

I would have a texting thing where I would send them, like, hey, you know, Sofia mentioned that you might be interested in doing a session. Yeah. Or I would do, like, BFF sessions where they would bring in five of their. I. Their friends, and we would do a group session with them. And so now it allowed them to work with me and see how I interacted. And then they would go home always and be like, you know, tell their parents.

And then we'd have an unveil of those images. So the parents would come back to studio, we'd unveil those images, and then I'd have special bonuses if they booked, you know, with me. So you could do that very easily if you had, like, five, you know, ambassadors or five influencers, however, model team, whatever you want to call it. And then they brought five of their friends. Like, you could have a huge, like, closing booking rate with that, and, you know, because they really get to work with you and get to know you.

And the parents then can see, you know, how you interact and stuff as well, which they're, like, a lot of times, they don't know where to start. It's like, so and so is going here. Okay. Or they just base it on price, and if my prices are high. So if they just base it on price. Yeah. They don't understand the difference until they see me work and they see me interact with their.

With their kids and be like, oh, this is. This guy knows what he's doing because everyone's a photographer these days. Right? Right. Gosh, yeah. And especially, I mean, phones are so good, and then all the AI stuff is just. It's nuts. Are you still doing kind of that influencer ambassador? Yeah, I do a little bit of that. Not as much as I used to. And the main reason why is I kind of transitioned through the years to, like, student, students.

Teens don't care about discounts. They don't care, like, money. Parents are paying for it. They're not even, I want this. I want that. Yeah. And in the same aspect, sometimes it's when we're sitting in a sales thing, then the seniors will look at, oh, my gosh, it's that much like, mom, you don't need to spend that much. And we're like, no, no, it's okay. But the mom's like, no, you're gonna leave.

This is important, you know, to me. So, yeah, it's. You get both sides of the coin, because sometimes they're like, don't spend all that money. So, yeah, I market more to the seniors now, and I do a little bit of the influencer thing, but they don't really get discounts. What they do is they get, like, one bonus session where I see a lot of people, I think they give too much of themselves with these programs.

Somewhere along the way, it got to be like, you had a. They were giving away, like, ten extra sessions and doing all these group things and buying extra props and doing all that. And now if that works for you and you can actually see a huge return on that, go nuts. But I've talked to so many people that are like, yeah, I know. So and so did this, and I started doing it, but I'm like, I'm just, like, giving, like, I'm doing so much, and they're not giving anything in return.

I'm like, no, they're going to take every session they're going to take. They love the experience, and the more you give that to them. But there has to be some sort of return either on a sale or a referral, you know, so. So all my influencers are pre qualified, and they. They get one extra bonus session or extra time or something with it, and they have to pay upfront, and they have to do things along my timeline.

So they're all getting photographed in the spring, as well as their main session in the June. In June minute. It gets nice because that was the hardest month for me to fill, because most people, like, they probably wait. They get. They want to wait? Yeah, I want a tan. They're going on vacation. They want a little break because they just did their finals. Like, they have all these kind of value.

Value, not value, like reasonable excuses not to do it, but because my season's short now if they're, you know, and then they have to wait till after 4 July because they're busy. So now, you know, and then they're starting sports in August. Volleyball. So it's like now that three months or four months has gone even shorter, it's like two weeks in July. Yeah, two weeks. Let's go. Yeah.

Which is what I'm in the thick of right now. It's like, let's go. We're going. You know, but it's like they're so, so set up boundaries and like, they're getting certain things. Well, then they have to follow certain rules. So, yeah, they would have to be in. In June. Plus, if I'm not booking someone, like everyone has their senior photographer picked out already by July. Like, as we're recording, that's, you know, it's mid July or late July.

So they're already set. So if I'm not getting recent images out and we're doing Instagram stories and different things through the sessions where other seniors can see that, then, you know, they're not going to book with me, they're going to book with someone else. So the sooner I can get a imagery out, the sooner I can leverage their audience, the, the more of their friends are that are going to book with me because they've.

They've gone through the experience. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. What does one other last question about the. The nuts and bolts of it is like, what do your senior sessions, do you have different levels of session? Do you have just one session for everyone that comes into your studio? What's that look like? Yeah. Great question. So I have two levels. I call it the. The girl session and boy session, basically.

But they have fancier names. It's like the edge in the lux, you know, but the Lux. The lux is between two and a half and 3 hours. It's around five outfits. And that's what the girls do. And that's. I charge 500 between five and $600 for that, you know, depending on the year. That time of year. I used to start that like at 300 and raise it up to five, kind of going back to what we talked before.

Then the boy session, which is the Ed session, is like hour to hour and a half, about two to three outfits. On top of that, I have like upsells upgrades. So if I do like my sport montage or any kind of composite kind of stuff, it's like dollar 150 to dollar 250 based on what I create for them. So that's an upsell. I do the cinematic senior films, which is like another thousand to $2,000 upsell.

So the session alone could be easily over $1,000 before they even invest in portraits. Gotcha. And does any of that session fee carry over towards a credit or. No, no. But what I do is I used to just be like, the session fee was due to lock the date in. You should always, you know, if you're new or whatever, always get some sort of down payment retainer because they will show up then.

Yeah, exactly. And through the years I've gotten more confident in how much I ask for upfront. So now it's either 1000 for the lower session or 1500 for the top tier session. Yeah. So if they do the top tier, which is 500, let's say they just do the base 500. They, they give me 1500. They have a $1,000 that goes towards their order. Okay. Okay. So there's, you know, it's no credit other than they're prepaying for their order.

Yeah. And money spent is money forgotten. So when they do, you know, might be a couple weeks or a month before they come in for their order. Between the time they book the session, we do the session. Yeah, they come in. So that money is money spent, money forgotten. It helps them then. Okay. I already have a $1000 credit, plus I can easily put three $4,000 towards the order.

Yeah. And that, you know, then you have like a $5,000 total, you know, order. And on top of that, I do still photograph families, but it's, they get a free family session. Oh, nice. So then in the fall I could, you know, do, I could do a family session with them and then they would get 15% off anything they ordered for family portraits. So it's another nice upsell and bump.

They're pre qualified. I've already worked with them. Usually the family's smaller and they're, they're older, they're not like toddlers and stuff. So it's quick and easy. And I'll book those on a Saturday and back to back to back when the leaves change here, which, when everyone wants their family portraits done. Nice. And so it's super efficient. They're pre qualified. They're going to drop at least another thousand dollars, if not more, because I really kind of stressed to the point where, you know, now you might be empty Nester.

It might be their last child. And this is the last time to do the family portrait or the last time you did a family portrait your senior probably looked. There are probably two or three, right? Yeah. Then the seniors, like, we need to update that. I have no teeth. My hair's cut in a ball. You know, I love it. So it's an easy, easy up. Another upgrade. So are you doing any family photography except, like, they have to be just past clients or the.

The current clients get a special little offer? Yep. Absolutely. That's a special one. Yeah. And it's usually for a year, but, you know, you talked about, like, oh, what about if I get nervous or if I don't kind of reach my goal, I can always go back. I did this during COVID and then once we opened up, it's like, hey, remember you had this family portrait, and family was.

People realize how, especially over how important family was. So, like, it was like a shot of cash flow. Like, it's like, hey, remember we never did this. Let's get together before they do go back and everything. And everyone was together, which was nice, too. So, yeah. Yeah. That was really easy to schedule and sell and get a boost of income. So I'm always telling people, instead of going out and trying to always get new customers and new clients, you have pre qualified ones just sitting there, you know, offer them something or offer them, you know, if it's.

Maybe it's a headshot they own a business or they need something, like, you can. It's so much easier to sell to someone who's already purchased from you instead of going out and always trying to get the new, which is the hard part of seniors. Like, every year, you basically wipe the slate clean. Like, yeah, I'm starting over. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, at least, though, you do have that timing there that people are expecting to hire one because, you know, like, the.

I kind of missed the client cycle of family photography because it was like, even when they were younger, like, most of my family's had elementary kids are younger because that's what my kids were at the time. So, you know, you end up oftentimes marketing to the people that you're around, but, you know, it was like, every couple years, they'd come back, and you had these routine clients where then you go into the pet space, and it's like, oh, it's like once a lifetime of the dog, usually.

So that's, like, every decade or so where I have had repeat clients, but it's certainly not on a yearly basis. And I think a lot of people struggle with, like, okay, I'm supposed to niche down and to, like, have this one genre that I offer and does that mean that I can't do these other things? So I love this example of, yeah, no, I still shoot families, but I'm just marketing it to your past clients, your senior clients.

So if you go to your website, it's still all seniors and all your marketing is focused on that, but then you are able to continue to offer other services on the backend. Brilliant. Yeah, absolutely. And I really like what you said, like, niche and down. Like, like, you're very niche that way. I am as well. Not only I like high school senior, I've gotten, like, really tight in my client Persona.

Like, they have to, not have to be, but ideally they're into the arts or music. They're into have some sort of hobby or sport where we can incorporate that. And especially dancers. I've got into this, like, dancer, dancer niche where, like, I love photographing dancers and they're so easy to photograph because they just, they know their body. So it's like, go stand there and they're like, yep, yeah, I don't have to pose them, you know, and then we do these cool dance shots, which nobody does in my area.

And so it, and they appreciate the art of it because they're in dance. The parents have some sort of art background, so they are used to, like, I'm going to invest in art and photography of my children. And so I've even done one other quick little marketing tip we're going long here is I've like, like the tween. I've kind of, like, got into the tween type of, like, pre qualifying.

So I'm getting them way before their seniors and, you know, exposing photography to them and create because they're kind of a lost genre as well because, yeah, all these pictures as kids and then the tween, that awkward kind of space, and when they transition from a child to a tween or teen, it's like all of a sudden they're not a baby anymore. They're starting to be more of a teen.

Yeah. And so teen dancers is what I've really, like, I started doing that in my studio in, in the, in the winter to generate income in the winter instead of, like, I'm not a boudoir photographer. I think that really hurts my, if I did, that would hurt my marketing for seniors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and different things like what can I do in the studio? It's like, I've been doing all these, like, I call it grace in motion, these dancers, and they're.

They're getting these awesome dance images, and I'm like, that average has been about a thousand to $1200 in the winter. Yeah. And now they're like, okay, in a couple years, they're gonna be seniors, so, like, who are they gonna come to? Like, after they had that experience? Like, yeah, come to me. So, yeah. And I would imagine too, like, the dance world. I don't know. I've never been to dancer.

My kids are not dancers. But I think it's, like, a world where they do have photographers at some of the events and things like that. So they're used to wanting some dance pictures, but it's the same kind of thing as, like, a horse show photographer where it's, like, standard photo versus, like, what you can do, which is taking a portrait to a whole new level. So then you're kind of cherry picking those people that really value that, which.

Yeah. You're pre marketing, like, the most. Most open people to investing in photography. Yeah, yeah. And that just. That took off like crazy because they'll all talk because they're all at competitions and they're like, oh, do you see this? Did you see that? That was so cool. And like you said, yeah, like, the live event, it doesn't always capture them in the best light or I, you know, they're all in the same outfit.

They all have their hair pulled back. They all the same mark makeup. So when I go to dance competitions, like, and with my friends and stuff, I'm like, okay, where. Where is she? Like, I got her. No, I lost her. It's like, I can't tell. They all look the same, you know, except if there's, like, sometimes, like, one boy on there, I'm like, then I'm locked in on the boy.

Like, because it's like, it's the only one I could follow these things. It's not like the others. Yeah, yeah, like, that's easy. Like, how can I? You know? But, yeah, so this is like, again, it starts to tell their individuality. Their hair is down. Yeah. You know, we're doing things with flowy fabric and, like, I can do composites and, yeah, if they're on point, we can do some really cool things.

Yeah, that, and again, I love it because it's so artistic and it's so beautiful, like, the things they can do, and it's so powerful. Like, amazing, amazing athletes, dancers are just amazing athletes. Yeah. Yeah, agreed. Awesome. So if people are out there listening and they're like, huh, this high school senior thing seems interesting. What advice do you have for them for kind of testing the waters? If they're like a, you know, family portrait photographer or if they're like pets or something like that.

How do you start to kind of test the waters of the senior thing? See if you'd enjoy it? Yeah, I would just say reach out or to. If you know, a family and they have like a senior or tween age, you know, have them come in, you know, do a session for them. Lot of people say do it for free, which, yeah, I can say do it for free, but I would definitely, like, like, invoice them, as in, hey, normally I would charge this, you know, but I'll throw the session in, and then if you want to purchase anything, here's my price.

Pricing the purchase. They will want to purchase something. Yeah. So, yeah, I would kind of hit it that way. If you don't know anyone, if you have no connections, you can simply do, like, a Facebook post, you know? You know, especially. So I say Facebook because you're gonna market to the. The parents are on Facebook. Yeah. Seniors and everything are on Instagram. But you can just say, hey, you know, do you have someone between this age group?

I'm launching this, I'm looking for, you know, a few, you know, five people to come in that we can put together, you know, some imagery for you in return, you'll get something. Yeah. You know, so there. You'll easily get people in. And that way, if you want to also do. You can do an Instagram post for that. What I would do is I would run, like, maybe like a contest.

When I. When I did my senior films, I wanted to launch that. I put one together from a past client. Then I put it said, who wants to enter the get this as a bonus to their senior session? So I did a contest. Make sure you follow rules of Instagram contest. Just google it. There's certain rules that are easy but you should follow and. Yeah, so then everyone, you know, you could do a, like a share, they get extra points for doing that.

And then I picked someone, but then everyone who entered, they got it. They got a discount on it. So then everyone basically was a winner, but the main winner got it for free. Absolutely for free. Generated a lot of buzz, and it allowed me to get more samples out there as well. Yeah, I love that. Do a lot of things like that for like a dog of the month club or certain breeds, breed of the month or, you know, things like that.

Yeah. All the marketing is so similar. Just like little tweaks. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, let people know where they can find you online and you know, and because you run a whole senior like membership and you do help people with senior photography stuff, so let them know where they can find you and all that good stuff. I do, yeah. So freevote photography.com, that's my photography business website. On there you'll see links to seniors unlocked.

Or if you go to seniorsunlocked.com, that is my educational site for photographers where I have a membership, I have freebie things in there, different webinars and educational things. There's templates. I sell overlays and pricing sheets. All kinds of stuff in there to help so you can buy individually or if you join the membership, you get all that stuff. As well as group mentoring with myself once a month.

I just did it not yesterday day before we talked all about funnels. Yeah, yeah. Landing pages and funnels in Facebook ads. So yeah, that was our, a monthly meeting. Oh, yeah. Go check it out. And you actually have too. I know you mentioned before and I know my people would love this. A freebie for an off camera flash guide. I do. Yeah. So it's an ebook on how to get the dramatic skies or how to just balance or overpower the sun very easily.

Do an off camera flash. Perfect. And get that, get those epic dramatic shots. Nice. Yeah, we'll put a link, we'll get a link in there for that, everybody. But I knew my people would love that, so I'm like, oh, and make sure we post that. Good. Yeah. Awesome. All right, well, thanks, Dan, for chatting with us and sharing a little bit behind the curtain of a high school senior photographer.

And if you guys reach out to Dan and, yeah, let them know if you love this episode. And thanks so much again for being with us. Yeah, thank you. Hopefully your audience got some good information. Yeah, I'm sure they loved it. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks.