It's not often that Heather and I don't agree on something. So in today's episode, we are going to have a knockdown drag out fight. Okay, not really. We're gonna have a discussion about something we have differing views on and how we came to those differing views and really what our thoughts have to do about all of it. So stay tuned. Welcome to The Hair of the Dog podcast.

If you're a pet photographer ready to make more money and start living a life by your design, you've come to the right place. And now your host pet photographer, travel addict, chocolate martini connoisseur, Nicole Begley. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Hair of the Dog podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Begley. And today I've got back my favorite Heather Lahtinen is in the house.

However, we are gonna be throwing down today because we have very differing views on this subject. Oh, this is gonna be so interesting because you and I have so many things in common and we approach business in a very similar fashion. And I would say 98.9% of the time we're on the same page and we're totally in sync. But occasionally there are things where we're like,

no, no, that's, that's, no, no, You are just wrong. No, this, and I, the part that I wanted to talk about this for is also because it goes deeper like everything else, the feelings that I have towards this and the feelings that Heather... Heather has towards this have to do with our thoughts about this. And it actually has nothing to do with other people's thoughts about it.

It's my own thoughts that are making me want to have this particular view of it. And also assuming that others are gonna have the same thoughts that I do. I love that we're having this discussion publicly, because we've talked about this in private, and you are so awesome that like when we have this conversation and we disagree, you're like, well, here are my thoughts about it.

And I'm like, yeah, that, that actually makes sense why you think that? And then I tell you my thoughts and you're like, yeah, that makes sense as well. So it's all in a very friendly like understanding manner. Like, oh, I could see why you approach it that way. It's all very respectful. And that's one thing I love about our relationship is even when we disagree,

it's rare, but even when we do, we're like, oh yeah, no, that's cool. It makes sense. Maybe We should invite some politicians to listen to this so that they can actually, I don't know, talk to each other and see different points of view and say, I get that. I get that. Let's figure out something that works for everyone.

But anyway, I digress. Yeah, can you imagine that? How much easier it would be? But people have asked me a couple of times, and we've talked about this previously, about how you and I worked together in such a harmonious fashion. And that's because I believe we are both really good at emotional regulation. Like neither one of us is super sensitive or has a lot of runaway thoughts.

So we're both really good at mind management. And then emotional regulation, which means, oh my gosh, you're not gonna believe this, but we can actually disagree. Like adults or like, yeah. Responsible adults. Yes. Because I think because you, neither one of us take what the other person says as meaning something about ourselves, which is really easy to do.

I mean, this is how it happens. I think, you know, think about any time where you've been in maybe a situation where you started to get frustrated and you know, and this could be something at home, this could be something in business, this could be something, you know, at work, if you're still working nine to five, like what situation like causes you sometimes to get like a little bit frustrated,

you start to like amp up that little bit of like, mm mm And oftentimes it is just us projecting these different thoughts of what we're thinking about the situation and where it's gonna go and all of these pieces where a lot of times these kinds of experiences can be avoided if we can just sit for a minute and be like, let me just see what this other person's points of view.

Let's, let's just see what it is without any judgment. And their point of view means absolutely nothing about mine. Like, I don't have to change mine. I don't have to agree with it. I don't have to like say, yes, you're right. No, you're wrong. Like, I am just going to sit down and shut up and see why they are thinking that.

And if you don't understand, say, why do you feel that way? Like, I'm gonna get curious about their point of view. And again, I don't have to do anything with it. I don't have to change, I don't have to agree. But can you get curious about somebody else's point of view? And this works really well as well.

When we have an upset client. If an upset client comes to us and they're like, I'm really mad because this photo didn't come up the way that I expected it to. Like our knee jerk reaction is be like, I saw it and it was great, and what the hell? Where meanwhile we could be like, okay, let me take myself out of this.

This has nothing to do with me right now, even though it's my business and they're talking about something I created personally for them, and I have a whole bunch of personal stuff wrapped up in this. Can I take myself outta that for a minute and say, what exactly are, you know, what exactly is not up to to par with this? Like,

what exactly are you upset about? How, you know, how can I fix this? Like, just asking them what exactly were you expecting? What exactly is not, not what, not up to your expectation. Okay. And then you can educate. You could fix it, you could just, you have options, but you're starting to understand their point of view.

And maybe it's just like, oh, I'm really mad cause I can't hang it on the wall. And it's like, oh, well you just need these special hangers. Okay, great. Everybody's happy. It could be something so simple. I love that you're using the logical approach here. And so the logic is like, no, what's, what's actually going on in getting really curious and understanding?

And I think when someone is upset, like if a photographer is upset because a client is upset or somebody thinks differently than you, it's you feel threatened. And when you feel threatened or your identity is questioned, you tend to have an emotional response. And like you said, you get amped up and you react to that. But you also have to recognize that you are seeing the world through your own lens and your own perspective and your own crap and your own stories and everything that comes along with it.

And like you said, you can keep that, like you don't have to change, but if you are not threatened, like, I'm not threatened. This is, so that makes me laugh even thinking about it, especially when we get into what we're talking about. Like, I'm, I'm not threatened by how you view this situation. Like that's more like,

Oh my God, what are they going to be talking about? Yeah, you better get into it. Yeah. Okay. All right. So it is not like, you know, climate change or global warming. It's not like some big heavy thing that we're like, oh my gosh, there's like some all sorts of, oh, you know, charged emotions on both sides.

We're talking about whether photographers should have a tip line on their square invoice when people pay them. What a tip line. So tip meaning, did you know that tip is actually an acronym? Did you know this? No. Yeah. So a tip, like, if you think about it, the restaurant situation is to ensure promptness, Promptness, really?

Yeah. Tip to ensure promptness. So, you know, tipping has, we had this discussion, I forget where it was, in one of our groups, we were talking about this, this is how this came up, and this is also how Nicole and I discovered we had different approaches to this, because my thought was like, if somebody wants to give you money,

let them like, straight up super simple. But it was more a question of like, should it be on the invoice? Should you have a line? Because to the counter argument of that, people are saying like, this tipping My, well, this is my, this is my perspective is, Oh, well say it. I, yeah, I don't want ever my clients to feel expected to Tip,

Because this comes from my own views of everywhere you freaking turn around now, that's it. There's a tip line. And, and there's this weird place where it's like, I, I was in the service industry, like I was a server for many years. So like, I get it, I got paid like $2 an hour to work in the restaurant.

Like all of my money was made in tips. I am like the best restaurant client because I get it, and I, I want to tip great service, but I get frustrated when it's like expected for something that is like, well, no, you just took my order and put the cookie in the box. Like you didn't, there was no extra service.

Like, it feels to me that like every place you go now, it's expected. And the part that really makes me uncomfortable again, all my projections is when you go somewhere and you're like, oh, wait, am I supposed to tip here or not? Like for instance, you're like checking into a hotel and it's like, okay, like, all right,

I know like the bell person's gonna take my stuff to my room. I should give them like a dollar a bag or this or that. You know, like, but there's different situations where sometimes you find yourself in, you know, maybe you've never been to get a massage and you're like, am I supposed to tip my masseuse? Oh my gosh,

how much? For instance, this was when we did a, we went to Belize, we talked about my crazy Belize trip where the house canceled on us, and we were just like, whatever, fine. So we we're going to three other families. So a couple nights we ended up getting a chef come in and cook for us. Because you guys,

when you have a big group, it's actually the same price, if not even a little bit less to have somebody come cook for you in your home than to go out to a restaurant and you still get to enjoy the beautiful home you're in. So awesome. But then there's the like, wait, do I tip this person? What's the expected tip?

How much? And then like, it goes into me of this whole, like, I wanna be generous, I wanna give them the right tip, but I also don't wanna like pay more than I need to pay. You know? So it's like this like weird place where I'm just like, ah, and I don't ever want my clients to feel that.

So therefore, oh, I am strongly in the no. Like if they wanna tip you, they will tip you. Like I've still had clients that have given me a card when they pick up their stuff and there's a hundred dollars cash in it. Like, they'll still tip me if they want me to, to tip me, but I'm not wanting to make them feel that it's expected.

Okay, but you're making an assumption here. Oh, I'm making a lot of assumptions and I recognize that I receive that. Like I know it's all about me. And, and I know that other people will have totally different views, but I know that some people have the same views as me and for those people. Okay. You're trying to identify with,

okay, tell me what you think the biggest assumption here is. Oh, that people would feel as conflicted and as I am with the tip, and therefore I don't want them, which again, is conflicted. It's not necessarily like, I'm not judging the business that had the thing, I'm just like conflicted. And I'm like, oh my God, what do I do?

But that's a negative feeling for me where I want everything about my experience to be like, easy and fun and just like Super positive. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. But you, you're assuming, and yes, I would agree with you. The assumption is like if the line is on the invoice, they're going to, the client is going to feel that it is expected.

Yes. Or yeah, they, they might, they might potentially feel that it's expected. Oh, and Well, that's the first time you said the word might. Oh yeah. Cause previously it was, Yeah, I get it. I get it. I don't, I don't want them to feel that it's expected, especially after, I mean, they've just spent several thousand dollars,

you know, So, which is fair. I think that is a conscientious business decision on your part to think, I don't want my client to feel like this is expected, so I'm just not going to put it on there. And you're, and you're coming at it from your experience. Yeah. Which is why it makes sense. Yeah. And part of the other reason is too,

like when I look at my client experience, I purposely don't wanna nickel and dye my clients. Mm. Like I have like this price for my classic wall art and this price for my signature wall art. And it includes anything you want. Like, we're not gonna be like, okay, and it's 10% extra for this. Oh. And if you want acrylic,

that's an extra charge. And this is an extra charge. Like there are no extra charges. Like it is, this is the price, this is what you can expect to pay. It is all included, like high service. So that felt like a disconnect for me too, with the brand experience that I wanna create. I'm with you a hundred percent on this.

When I had my wedding business, I had one rate, it was really freaking high, and that was it. Everything was included. And my thought was, I never want a nickel and dime my client. I don't wanna surprise them. I don't, I want this to be easy and simple and here's the price and you pay it and it's done.

So this is so interesting. Watch this. We agree on that, right? We're a hundred percent in line. Yep. However, You are extending that, and you are making the assumption that adding a tip line is nickel and dimming. I have the exact opposite thought and cause of that. I don't feel, I don't feel that the tip line is nickel and diming.

Okay. We both don't like, tell me more. Yeah, tell me more about your tip line. Go for it. Like what do you, what what, what's your thought about the tip line? So I will say, in all fairness, is that this was not an option that was available to me when I Same. Yeah. Right. So I never had to actually make this decision.

And over the course of my tenure, I did receive a few really nice tips, but it was certainly, it certainly was not on a regular basis. So, okay. That being said, when I first saw the question posed, I was like, oh my gosh, instantly, yes, of course I would have a tip line because I wanna give people the opportunity if they sowed desire to give me more money.

If somebody wants to give me more money, I will always give them the, the way to execute that. Like, that will always be available. I don't expect it. But here's the thing, because I don't expect it, it doesn't even occur to me to think that they would feel it was expected. Like the thoughts that you have. Actually,

no, I know they're, my Thoughts never crossed my mind. But, but here, so it, again, this all makes sense because I didn't have those thoughts. It didn't even occur to me. Like, it wouldn't occur to me to not put that tip line, right? Like I would just, I would just put it because I, I would think,

oh, if you want to gimme more money, then here's the opportunity to do so, and I don't expect it. And it's just there. So I, I didn't feel like that would be nickel and dimming or putting pressure on them because I didn't have any thoughts about what that would mean. I will agree with you everywhere I go, we got ice cream the other evening and there was,

there's a thing for tips. And I'm like, you, thank you for handing me my ice cream cone. That is like so nice. And I am so grateful. Like, and sometimes I do tip and sometimes I don't. I, and it's sort of random as to whether or not I do, but I, I get what you're saying that like,

it feels like it's everywhere and that everybody's expecting it, so it gets like a little bit annoying and you don't wanna be annoying, Right? Yes. Yep. So you just eliminate all possibility. But I just wonder if you're then blocking somebody's ability who actually wants to do something nice for you. Although, here's my thought. My thought is if my clients want to tip me or give me something bonus,

they will. Because many of them do. That's true. Yeah. So whether it's like I get gifts or a card with cash or like, none of it's expected, obviously. So that's, that's where I, my belief is like, I don't need to put this on here and potentially cause someone to feel like angst. Where if they wanna, if they wanna give me something else,

they certainly can and will, You're also, oh my gosh, I can't stop. You're also assuming that by putting that line there, that you are responsible for someone else's angst. Well, yeah, But you're not because, well, I know they have, it's cause they're thoughts. I know that's their Model. Like if somebody has thoughts about that line,

then yeah, they, But they have not been listening to you Heather and their thoughts from that line, they are going to real, like they are going to go back. That's true to classically condition of like, oh, I had that thought at this time and I was doing this thing. So it's obviously her fault. That's True. That's fair enough.

They, yeah, they all need to go through my training so they understand that your, your thoughts create your own feelings. But no, seriously, if you just look at this like in a bigger picture, when I start to worry about how a client or someone is going to feel by an action that I take, like in, I'm speaking in general terms.

Now if I worry about that, it can be debilitating. Oh yes. Because you won't take action. And also you could take the wrong action if you are, for instance, trying to figure out what to price your digital files and you know, profitability wise, they need to be $2,000, but you're like, I don't want my clients to feel like I am overcharging them on these digital files.

So I better only charge like $300 There. It's So good. So that's the same thing as this. Yes. But in this tip case, it is not actually affecting the profitability of my business where if you allow these types of things to rule your decision making, they can be an issue. So one way to figure that out I think is looking at this like,

all right, I'm looking at this tip, and if I made that decision solely on, I don't like how it could potentially feel to a client, that's not the best way. If I instead look at it and say, my experience is built around luxury and service and not nickel and diming, okay, then I can make a decision that's in line with that,

not a decision that is out of the thought that I had. Yeah, that makes sense. So you are, you have potential thoughts about potential thinking about the tip. So you're not willing, it's not worth the risk to you to put it on there. Yeah. But then when I think about it more, I, I see it more aligned,

not having it more in line with the type of business that I want. Yes. The experience that I want to create. Yes. Which means that your values like led the way, essentially illuminated this topic for you and said no, it's like, it was very clear for you. Like, no, I wouldn't do that because of these reasons. And there's this slight risk that somebody might,

you know, so I just don't even Yeah, Yeah. But So this is interesting though because you know, when I, when we first talked about this, I was like a hell no. But now that I've thought about it a little bit more, there are situations I'm a hell no still in my business right now with how, what my business looks like and the experience that I deliver for my clients is still a hell no for me.

But I just did that pricing podcast recently, how people are at different levels in their business sometimes where, you know, you're maybe doing the all inclusive couple hundred dollars to get clients in the door, get some experience getting used to this versus like the, the bread and butter, two to $3,000 sales and then the higher end luxury experiences. If you are in that,

like if I, Lisa, put this back on me, if I were in the all inclusive, I would have the tip line there because it is more of a, I don't know, I'm not at that luxury higher level. Like there's a distinction to the, the business experience, the client experience there, where I think if I was running more of that high volume lower price,

that I would add that on there. Interesting. Because there's a different thought. Yeah. Yeah. Which I'm not even sure what that different thought is. Yeah. It feels different to me. I would love to know what is the difference in the thought between Yeah. Yeah. I Got it. Okay. The thought is, oh my god, these people have already invested so much money there it is.

I can't possibly ask them for more versus like, Hey, these people are getting a deal. Yeah, you can pay me some more. Great. Okay. This is fascinating what we are uncovering here. Is it just possible, Hey look, I'm just asking is it possible that, because you think, say a $5,000 sale, $10,000 sale is a lot of money and you shouldn't be asking these people for more money.

Ding ding, ding. It's my upper limit of what is a reasonable sale or like what's a lot? Yeah, well, yeah, it's, it's my limit. Because again, if you look at like everyone's limits of, like, some people might think, you know, a $20 stake's expensive where somebody else is like, no $200, you know,

like the money's just a number. What is a lot is different for everyone. So interesting. So they give me $5,000 for, you know, something they wanted to purchase. Your thought is they've already paid me so much money they shouldn't have to pay me anymore. That's already, I know. I don't want them to feel expected to pay me anymore.

Okay. All right. Whereas If it's like, oh, you paid me a couple hundred dollars. Yeah, I don't mind if you feel They better gimme more To gimme a little extra. Isn't that so interesting? Huh? What do, what, what do you think in light of this slightly new perspective on these thoughts? Oh, I just, I just think our thoughts are very complicated.

Everyone needs the Heather. It is. Yeah. For real. It is very interesting to get to the core root of the thought because I'm sitting over here thinking I'm always worth more. Mm. I'm thinking Even if, would you have that on there? If you had a $20,000 wedding? Oh my gosh. $50,000 wedding. A Hundred percent yes. Without hesitation.

Interesting. And, and again, but I don't have the thought that they like that they should or they feel like they need to. Right. But also if somebody really values your service to the degree that they want to pay you more than you ask. Really my only thought it's this is so basic, is just let them Yeah. Right. It.

Okay. So let me give you an example. I took AV to get his hair cut recently to this local friend that we have. Oh, super great woman, beautiful little shop in the community. I've known her, actually I've known her my whole life. So, you know, 40 something years. And this was our first time going to her and she did a beautiful job on his hair and he's super picky.

And I said, how much is it? And she said, $15. And I was like, I looked, looked at her with this like blank look and I'm very dramatic and she knows me. So, and I'm like, Donna, for real? And she's like, yeah. And I think if I'm okay, I can't remember what the first check I wrote,

I only, she doesn't take anything but cash and checks and I didn't have any cash. I wanna say I wrote the check for $45, maybe 30 at least double. I at least doubled, if not tripled what she asked for. And that's what I wrote the check. And I didn't say anything. I just wrote the check and actually folded it up a couple of times and handed it to her and said,

thank you. And split, like, didn't wait for her to look at it or anything. Just like I paid her more than double bowl what she asked because I found the value in it and I liked the experience and Evan was happy, which it to me is priceless. Cuz the kid is so picky. So I, you know, like, okay,

you could argue, well that's a low dollar amount. Well, okay, maybe, but I wonder what she thought when she looked at that check. Like, somebody's willing to pay me double. And I've said to her since then, like, Donna, please, I beg of you to raise your prices. And she said, Heather, I just have this,

like, I have this group of older people in the community that are used to paying, one of them is my mother actually. And my dad and I, I said, well if it, if you feel good about it, you could grandfather them in and you could, you know, continue to charge them the same price. But for anyone under the age of 75,

I don't know, you could institute some new pricing and she just doesn't see the value in what she does the same way I do. Which is interesting, Which is what it all comes down to our self-worth and what we are perceiving as worth it. But then we, but here's the thing, Nicole, then we make decisions based on our perceptions of our value and our worth.

And these decisions are not always the best. They're not always guided. Let's say they're, I think they're well intended, but they're not always. Because if you're making a decision based on, oh, fear or the risk or what people might think or all of these other factors, I just ask myself, do good decisions come from those emotions? Right?

No, no, no. Never. So where does a good decision come from? Well, it comes from feeling certain, okay, what would I need to think or believe in order to feel certain? I don't know about adding the tip line. I dunno, just put it right. I'm not gonna make you do it. You don't have to add the tip line.

Yeah, no. Like, yeah, for the, for the actual tip line, you guys, there's no right or wrong. It just really depends what you wanna do in your business. So like, Whatever, But make the decision not from the thoughts, but instead from like looking at your client experience a little bit more and, and then also uncovering what those thoughts are that might be leading you down different thoughts on that client experience.

I think what you need to do is join Elevate and ask Heather how to coach you through this on a call. Yeah. Some coaching. Yeah. If you come in the Elevate, did you know you get Lifelines inside of Elevate, so you can talk to me privately one-on-one. You also have the ability to get on the coaching calls with me twice a month with Jessica once a month and ask us these questions directly.

You could say, Hey, I'm having this inner conflict about whether or not to put a tip line or to even accept tips. And then what I can do is just ask you some questions to help you uncover the feelings or the thoughts that are driving the feelings that are leading you to make the decision to not allow tipping. And here's the thing, here's,

here's the thing. Really important. Like Nicole said, you can do whatever you want. I just want you to love your reasons. You know, like you love your reasons, and if you love your reasons and it feels good to you and appropriate, by all means continue doing what you're doing. But if you uncover a thought or reason that's like,

oh, that's not, that's not a very good reason to, to not do that, then I just want you to question it. I just want you to question your thoughts. That's all. Yeah. I love it. Awesome. Well, this has been fantastic. Let us know on social guys at Flourish. Is it Flourish Academy or flourish.academy on your Instagram?

Well, If you look for me on Instagram, you can just search for Flourish Academy. That's the One word. Okay. Yeah. Yep. And then at Nicole, Begley official on Instagram, let us know, are you guys pro tip? No tip. Where do you fall on this? It's like, I don't know. They have all those,

it's like the, the dress, remember it was like the blue or gray or the shoes or pink or gray or whatever with shoes. Yeah. I wanna know you guys, are you pro tip? No tip. Like let any reasons No. And the reasons why. I would love to know if anyone else out there feeling the same way that I do of the expectations.

Yeah. That you, I Just let then feed my thoughts of like, see, see, I told you, see Heather, look, they're out there. No, I know. She's just trying to prove it. So we need, I'm, I'm trying to remember on that thread, correct me if I'm wrong, it was pretty equal, Wasn't it?

Like some people were Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They would do it. No they wouldn't. But you know, oh yeah, we'd love to know your reasons. Yeah, I would just want you to also question your assumptions. Like Nicole was saying that if she puts it on there, people will feel like it's expected.

And I'm like, this is all really, that's all I have to say about that really. Are you sure everyone, everyone all the time? Well obviously no Heather. Okay. Love your reasons. All right, well I hope you guys enjoyed this one. Lot of fun to record and yeah, when we started having this little conversation on Voxer, we're like,

oh my gosh, we gotta bring this one to the podcast cuz it is good. So, so good. Yeah, go uncover those thoughts, make your decisions for your business based on what experience you want in your business and be careful that you're not making them on those thoughts. So yeah, let's, let's make sure that we're making decisions that support us and yeah,

support our business. Thank you. Of course. Thanks for being here, Heather. We will see you guys next week and if you guys want more information on the Elevate, just go to www.hairofthedogacademy.com/elevate. Thanks for listening to the Hair of the Dog podcast. This was episode number 202. If you wanna check out the show notes for access to any of the resources that we mentioned,

simply go to www.hairofthedogacademy.com/ 2 0 2. Thanks for listening to this episode of Hair of the Dog Podcast. If you enjoyed this show, please take a minute to leave a review. And while you're there, don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss our upcoming episode. One last thing, if you are ready to dive into more resources, head over to our website at www Hair of Dog Academy.

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