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Welcome to the Hair of the Dog podcast. Today, we're talking with Kim Hoshal Photography about her first year in business and how she has been taking perfectly imperfect action. If you are newer to business and struggling in that world of overwhelm, you definitely want to listen to this episode. Stay tuned.

Welcome to the Hair of the Dog podcast. If you're a pet photographer, ready to make more money and start living a life by your design, you've come to the right place. And now your host, pet photographer, travel addict, chocolate martini connoisseur, Nicole Begley,

Nicole here from Hair of the Dog. And today we are talking with Kim Hoshal from Portland, Oregon from Kim Hoshal Photography. Welcome Kim to the podcast. Thanks for having me. Of course. I'm so excited to have you. Gosh, how long have you been in the Hair of the Dog world? You've been in Elevate for the past, oh gosh, it's now seven months. Um, and then you were a Hair of the Dog Academy member prior to that. So tell us a little bit about, I guess, just your journey and when you started this pet photography journey and, and how long you've been been moving forward with this? So I was in a manager position at a corporate company and I just, it wasn't what I wanted to do it wasn't making me happy and I had only done it to kind of recoup after my husband almost died. So I, uh, every day was trying to think, how can I not do this anymore? And I noticed that anytime I dealt with people who brought their dog in, it was like, okay, this is my happy place. This is, this is where I shine is when I'm dealing with people with dogs. So initially I had through a friend had discovered this dog training school and that's kind of what kicked it off. As I said, you know, I talked to my husband, he said, yeah, go ahead and quit, finish your dog training school. It'll be great. And, um, your ad popped up for Hair of the Dog Academy. And I have a photography background. I've been a professional landscape photographer for about 15 years. So I saw that and I was like, Oh, wait a minute. Like, wait there's dogs. I was like, uh, yeah, I could combine both of my passions in to one business. That's awesome. So that's kind of what started as truly as like seeing your ad. And I was like, I'm just gonna take one of the courses and, you know, check it out and see what it's all about. Cause I mean, I knew that people took photos of dogs, but I hadn't, it wasn't my first thought when I was leaving my job is, yeah, I'm going to do that. That was, that kind of came through like just a series of happy circumstances. I love that. How long ago was that approximately? That was, I left my job. That was my 50th birthday present to myself. So that was, that was a year and a half a year and a half ago I left, but I started the Academy probably it's been almost that long. It was maybe a couple months ago.

Nice. That's awesome. So, yeah. So you were doing landscape things, which is a whole nother animal than portrait work. I I'm not as familiar with the landscape world, but it's more selling fine art for decor and things like that. Correct?

Yeah. I was living in Sedona, Arizona, and I had a gallery in Jerome. And so I sold out of my gallery and with other galleries and I worked with Arizona Highways on magazines, books and calendars and things like that. So yeah, it's a very different situation from the portrait world.

Nice. I love Sedona. You're like two of my favorite places. Although I haven't been to Portland, I feel like I would love Portland. I think you would find me to get up there photographs from dogs on the coast. We'll have to go on a road trip. Yeah, for sure. I love it. Awesome. Yeah. I love too when these kinds of happy accidents happen and you're like, okay. Cause I too, when I left my zoo world job, I was like, what can I do? I guess I could be a dog trainer. It kind of becomes one of those things. Like when you're in school as a kid, you're like, I can be a teacher or a doctor or, you know, it's like these basic things. You're like, I want to work with dogs. I guess I could be a vet or a dog trainer. And then I didn't realize this whole pet photography thing could be a thing, either. You know, which is just, I find fascinating because so many of us are so into this world that we think, how can anyone out there not know this exists because we're so close to it. But yet here you are just a year and a half ago. It's not that long ago in the photography world, but still like didn't occur to you that, Oh wait, pet photography is an actual thing that I could do as my main focus. So how many other potential clients are out there? I'm just waiting for us to even tell them that this is a thing. So I find that really exciting.

It was exciting for me when you know, when it clicked in my head, I was like, Oh yeah, hang on h ere.

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So, yeah. So you've been building your business then over the past year or so. And I know there's a lot of people listening out there that are in that process or just getting started or just starting to click that, Oh my gosh, wait, I can do this. And then they start to, you know, take the first couple of steps and they quickly become very overwhelmed because there's so many moving parts. So what was that process like for you?

For me? I think the thing that I stumbled over the most, and I still have to think about it every day is now having to deal with clients one on one and not having, Oh, there's a magazine editor that I can just go talk to and send them a bunch of photos. Cause he needs photos of, you know, Coffee Pot Rock. It's like, you know, that's easy, but realizing that I needed to one really reach out to my community in order to get clients because there isn't that one go to person that can get you work. So that was, that's been interesting cause I'm an extreme introvert. And so that's, that's challenging for me. Like I really have to make myself do that and then to get clients in and then realizing how much education goes along with it to really get them set up for success so that they feel like they're getting the most out of the,

Yeah, I talked about this, there's a past episode. I think it's number three, maybe of the podcast where I talk about the myth of organic marketing. So I think a lot of us want, wish, hope that, Oh, all I have to do is create a website and a Facebook page, social media, pop it up there and I'm going to have tons of clients. And I mean, that's just really not how this works is. You're finding out that it's so important to me based on relationships and to actually have marketing plans and to put ourselves out there, which is scary. But the alternative is nothing. The alternative is sitting at home and wishing that these things happen. So super proud of you for taking these actions to the, you know, start making those connections outside of our comfort zone. Even those of us that are a little bit more on the extroverted side. I still, although I kind of hover the middle, I'm slightly more extrovert, but I'm not like way extrovert. I'm like right above that little middle line, I can kind of go back and forth. Um, but, Oh my gosh, I'm also one of those people that just hates having to like, Oh, it's scary to make connections. I've gotten way better about it because I've stopped putting meaning on it. And I've stopped, stopped thinking that, Oh, it's obviously going to go really, really bad, you know? Cause your head starts to go in all these terrible places. So then you just stay home and you're like, okay, forget it maybe tomorrow, maybe next week. And it's so easy to keep putting it off because you know, procrastination's a really easy way to do with fear. So I'm very proud of you for taking those, those steps.

Thanks. Yeah, for me, I just really, I w I always struggle with, well, what am I going to say? And I don't, I don't know if I have anything to offer them. And, and so I, I just spin. Sometimes I'd have to go stop, but they're not, they don't have a script in their head. They don't know what to expect from you. So you can say whatever happens in the moment and not, not, you know, sit there and think, okay, it has to be perfect. Or if it's not perfect, then you're going to say, no,

I think a lot of time too, at least for me, sometimes my kind of fear that would pop up is I'm not going to know what to offer them or feeling like I'm going to have to make a split second decision. And I think it's important for us to remember that we always have the ability to say, Oh, let me think about that. Let me get back to you on the details of that, you know, that we don't have to just commit to everything on the fly and like this, that we can go into meetings with potential partners and just talk to them and say, Hey, how can I help you? And then see how that comes back and then give it some thought and then revisit it with them. Like, it doesn't all have to happen in two minutes, which I think is sometimes how we build it up in our head.

Yeah. Cause you feel like, well, I'm the expert in this. I should know exactly what I should offer and be all prepared with this package. That's going to be so amazing. It's going to blow their socks off and I have to stop myself. Okay. Maybe that's not what they need. So if I come in too prepared, sometimes that's even worse because then the one offer that I've come up with that I think is amazing, could not, could be something that doesn't work for them,

You know? And it just comes down always to having these conversations and be open in these conversations and coming from a place of service to these potential partners. And, um, yeah, I think good things happen. I love it. So Kim, one of the other things you've done recently, which is huge is you started a podcast in your local area. So talk about, talk about taking some steps out of your comfort zone. What's that been like?

It's been interesting. Yeah. So, I mean, I was inspired by Marika and she had the podcast and we were kind of coming at the same thing from different angles where here in Portland, we have a, um, a women's group that is all pet-iowned businesses are pet businesses, owned by women. And it, you know, in the Portland area and we basically are kind of like a mentor group where we help each other out and, you know, do events together and, you know, share offers with each other. And Marika was coming more from reaching out and just interviewing people in her area that had to do with pets. But it was kind of a similar of like, just getting the people in your area to learn more about what was there. I was like, Oh, well I could do a podcast. And I just started, I started with, you know, some of the women in the group and I just talked to them and then I, I start, I started the interviewing them and I would ask at the end of the interview who, what nonprofits that they worked with and would they be interested in making that connection for me? So then I reached, would reach out to the nonprofit and then I'd interview them. So it was getting doors opened. That would have been more like a cold call before, you know, this time I've had somebody kind of introduce me and say, Oh, Kim from PDX pet connection is going to call you. So it's been nice. Cause it's, it's kind of helped me out because I've had that person to introduce me.

And from their point of view, I mean, there's, you know, just takes a little bit of their time, but it's going to be some exposure for the charity or the business. So, you know, why wouldn't they want to do it? You're coming at them with this great offer that, um, yeah, it's a really easy yes. For them to say.

Yeah. And it's helped me because it's forced me to reach out to the community and make those connections and keep them going because I, I try and stay in contact with the businesses and the nonprofits, just see what what's going on. And now that I have somebody that I can talk to there, because I've talked to them before, it feels more comfortable to call them up or email them and say, Hey, what do you need? Or, you know, is there an event there coming up that you want to talk about on the podcast? Or, you know, anything that I can do to help out it ma it makes me maintain those relationships where before it's like, it's super easy for me to just send an email. And if I don't get a response right away, I'm like, Oh, well, okay, it's done and walk away, which is not the way to go.

Right. Right. It's so easy to do that though. I totally understand. I totally get it. And for those of you guys at home, Mareka that too, speaking of, we actually talked about that in episode eight, the magic of collaborations with Marika Moffitt. So yeah. So you can learn more about that on episode eight, it was a really good interview as well. So definitely check that out. But yeah, it sounds like Kim, some of the secret to your success has been getting over, you know, the subconscious fear that we all have for doing these things that are slightly outside of our comfort zone and taking some imperfect action. So just tell us, I guess, a little bit about what that looked like, or just kind of, if there was something that finally helped make that click that, that you realized, Oh my gosh, this is the way

Well through Elevate. Cause I had watched all the videos in the Academy, but especially the focus in Elevate and just being able to ask those one-on-one questions in hot seats and things like that to really nail down what I needed. I'm just doing the website, working on my customer information, like the inquiry guides and things like that. I hate to write. I always felt like I'm awful at it. Thankfully my husband keeps, who does write, who keeps telling me no, no, you know, it's great. It was like, no, it's not because, you know, as we all, you know, we judge ourselves,

I understand it's yeah. I feel like I can get it done, but it's definitely something that weighs on me. If I have to write, it's just like, I keep procrastinating on it and I know I have to do it and I just don't want to do it. So I do other things and I do other things. And finally I'm like, I just have to do this. And then usually once I get started, it is not that bad, but Oh my gosh. So how would I build it up to in my head is unbelievable. And gosh, it's so many, so many things. I actually have a little exercise that I do whenever, whenever I find myself going through and I've had like a day or two of feeling unproductive or even where, if I was working all day, but I didn't actually feel like I took any steps forward. I mean, we're obviously going to have a day like that here and there. But if I have a couple in a row or I'm like, gosh, I've gotten nothing done this week and I've been at my desk, what's going on. Usually I ask myself, is there something that I'm avoiding, which is almost always the case. And it's usually either something that I don't enjoy doing, like writing, or I feel like I'm not that good at, or I, one of the things I just filled up into my head or it's something that I kind of fear doing. So even if it's like a subconscious fear of, Oh, I need to get back to this particular client. But, um, you know, I'm not really sure what they're gonna say or if they think it's going to be like way too expensive and insane, and they're going to think that I'm just a horrible person. Cause I charge what I charge. So I start to go down there or because I don't know what, how to do it. So I don't have all the steps. So I, again, probably it turns to fear of like, Oh, you're not going to know how to do it. Just going to get frustrated. So just ignore it. So it's usually one of those things. And then I find when I actually sit down and I say, you know, gosh, darn it here, 15 minutes. Let's just get it done. Let's get started at least take a step. And then I start doing it and I'm like, Oh, that wasn't so hard.

And now I have it done and it's out of the way and I can move on.

Yeah. And I distressed for like a week and a half over this or longer sometimes it's like, Oh my gosh, just get it done. That's taking that action. Um, yeah, I think that's also one of the hardest things too. Especially as you're in the beginning, parts of your business, where you're in student mode and you're learning, you're learning, you're taking all these things in. It can be really hard sometimes to feel like you have enough information to start taking action. Yeah. Did it feel like for you to like, okay, I have to keep learning. I have to keep learning, but at least in my experience, once you start taking that imperfect action, you actually learn faster and you learn more and you learn things that there's no way you could have learned before because that action leads to clarity. Did you find that was the case?

Yeah. Most definitely. Once I got, once I started and the other thing was once I started and I know we've we talk about this in Elevate is that I had a better question to ask. Yeah. Because before I knew before I started it, it's like, my questions weren't necessarily focused enough or weren't really going to get me to the finish line. But once I started was like, okay, now I really understand what it is about this, that I need clarity. So I was able to ask a better question to get, you know, to get that help. I needed to go, Oh, okay. Now I got it. And then just push forward.

Yeah. I, that happens a lot. I see. Especially in the big hair of the dog Facebook group, which if you guys aren't in that we have a big, giant, um, free hair of the dog Facebook group. If you go to hair of the dog academy.com/fb group, that'll take you right there. But in there I sometimes see people posting I'm in my business. How do I market? I'm like, Oh my gosh, I can teach like a week long class on that. You know, it's definitely not something that you can answer in just a couple sentences, you know? And I think when we're starting off too, we ask those big questions because we don't know the specific questions to answer or to ask even which again just starts from, from attempting and trying and testing different things. And then that question goes from how do I market to, um, even something as what's the best type of non social media marketing, you found in your business, you know, like that starts to get a little bit more specific and then you maybe test raising money with a charity and offering sessions with them. And then you can ask questions about specifically, who's done something like this, or I'm having this challenge here and then you just start to get so much better answers and so much more clarity on what you enjoy and what works and, and just move faster, move forward so much faster when you're in motion.

Because when I, when I was in the Academy, it's like, I was such an, I was so in my head and then learning mode, I was just like, okay, I'm just gonna, you know, I'm watching all the videos and I have tons and tons of notes and a to-do list that's a mile long. And, but you know that the fear creeps in and the, the fear of imperfection, which I know exactly. Yeah. Unfortunately I know in my life where that comes from, but it's hard to shut off because it was so ingrained in my life for the first 30 years, I just was like, Oh, I needed that kick in the pants for me in Elevate where it's just like, no, there's no excuses. There is, you know, you just need to take the action, just stop overthinking it. Stop making excuses to why you can't do it because you can, you have the knowledge just do it.

Yeah. Those past experiences can be pretty tricky things. They become very, um, very cemented in our brain of, Oh no, that's not safe. Well, you know, we can't do that. So it can be really hard to move past that. So congratulations to you.

Well, I fight it every day cause I, I grew up dancing and so I was a performer and, and at auditions and when you're on stage, it's like, not only do you have to look perfect, but you have to dance perfect. And you have to sing perfect. And you have to, you know, it's like, there's all that pressure every single day to be all of it and you know, and not cause you know, no one wants to see you sweat. No one wants to see you fall down and, and screw it up until you're like, Oh my God. Now I, you know, not doing that anymore. It's like, I don't have to be like that all the time. I can just, you know, I can just take action. And, and if it's not the, if it's not the most perfect action it's it's okay.

Yeah. And truly, so many of us are worried about judgment of other people. And I think everyone's going to, you know, I'm going to take this action. I'm gonna screw it up. And they're all going to judge me. But most people honestly are so preoccupied in their own like life in their own head and everything else that they don't even notice. You can do these different things. And like, you know, I don't think a client's ever going to be like, Oh, um, yeah, no, I want to book with you. But yeah, I saw you do this one post like two weeks ago. That was like really stupid. So forget it. Yeah. Just doesn't happen that way. But we, we convince ourselves that it does that's for sure. I know one of the other challenges to starting out is the imposter syndrome, which for you coming from being a photographer of, a landscape photographer and having a gallery and selling art and things like that, I would imagine that, well, this is me judging me, not judging per se, but throwing my beliefs that I would look at the outside and say, Oh, well she's already been a photographer. So she didn't have that

Imposter syndrome. Um, no I do. I do because it's, it's such a different environment. Like I was joking about it, uh, yesterday. Cause I, I borrowed one of my dogs, friends, cause technically we're not allowed to be open. So I just played around, I have a corgi and his little friend was over playing and I was like, well, let's take them for a walk and I'll just bring my camera with me. You know? So I did that and I was playing around and I looked at my husband and I said, you know what? There's days that I miss landscapes as like, cause you know what, they don't move. Right. I can wait around, you know, cause I would wait for the right light, like three hours, you know, in the snow. It's like, yeah, I don't care. Just stand here. But you know, when you're doing pet photography, it's everything, you know, the dog is moving and you're trying to get a good light and you're trying to get the focus on the eyes. And so that's, you know, so you're moving around the focal point and, and you're worried about the lighting, but you don't want to take too much time cause the dog's moving and I'm like, you know,

My dog, you're worried about the client judging you, that it's taking too much time or you don't know what you're doing or that's what they, you think they're thinking of you, but they're not, but you think they are.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's so different. It's like, you know, cause as a landscape photographer, I have all the time in the world to stand there. I mean, you know, there's, there is some urgency, you know, there's there's times that you just have to like, get it, get the tripod up and go and get the shot because something's happening that you're going to miss. But so much of it is set up the tripod, get the focus where you want and then just wait for the light to happen. So it's like the worst thing you got to do is study the weather before you go. But with dogs is that whole thing of constant of having to make adjustments all the time is very different. So I love it, but it is, it does make me sometimes go, Oh my gosh, I hope people don't think that I've, you know, that I don't know what I'm doing and that I, I I've, I've taken a shot and looked at the back of my camera too often. Cause I'm not sure if I like the composition or the light or, or if the focus isn't where I want it,

My camera all the time. Because I find that, you know, sometimes I get to new spot and I'm so excited to start shooting there that I forget to change my settings.

Mmm.

So I am a big believer in regularly checking the back of your camera. So you don't shoot a whole entire like series and an area. And you're like, Oh, well those were all horribly

undereposed of blown out or whatever. Um,

Yeah. And spoiler alert, your client is definitely not judging you. Your clients preoccupied with, Oh my God, my dog stopped behaving. Oh my gosh, there's no way she's going to get these pictures. And it's going to be my fault. Like they're not blaming you about it. They're worried that their dogs this or that, or maybe they're worried about what are they going to have for dinner? Like I guarantee you, they're not talking about in their head. Oh my gosh. I don't think she knows what she's doing. Yeah. Look, she's taking a second. She's not shooting right now. Oh my gosh. Let's because she doesn't know what she's doing. We have to remember to take a breath and slow down. I was really guilty of this. When I first started my business, just feeling like I had to go, go, go, go, go. And you know, I can't take a break, but gotten much better at that. Although I still sometimes feel like that belief starts to kick in. Sometimes that that fear of what's my client thinking. Do they think that they're waiting around too much? They think this is taking too long. Are they happy with this? Oh my gosh. Are they, you know, not having a good experience. I could just, it all starts snowballing. And then you just have to like, stop it, tell your brain to turn it off. Just focus on some other things

With the dogs. It's like, you hear all the objections as to why they can't get a good photos. Cause you know the dogs moving, they need to be on leash. It's like, it's true. They are more worried about the fact that you're not getting it because their dog screwed up. They're not worried about you not getting it because of you. It's like, they're like, no, it's because of my dog. And I'm sitting there thinking, well maybe, maybe not. You know, I might be having a moment. You know, it'll just be a moment. Cause I do know what I'm doing. So, you know, but we all have those moments where something happens. You're like, Oh that wasn't perfect.

Yeah. And yeah. Spoiler alert again. Nothing's ever perfect. Yup. And same thing with our business too, is building our business. I'm sure if you were building yours, were you thinking, I just can't wait to get done building it. Like you thought that there would be an actual finish line for building your business.

I keep hoping that finish line is going to show up. Yeah.

I'm sorry. There's not one.

It's so funny. Cause every call, I, I have like a running list of running to do list. It's three pages long. Every time I'm on a call in elevate, I'm jotting something to add to the list. I'm like, okay, I need to add that to the list because somebody showed their website and it was like, Oh, I kind of like how they did that. You know, I wonder if I can incorporate something similar or you know, something is said by one of the mentors and it something clicks and you're like, that's what it was I was missing. I need to go back and fix that and Oh yeah. It's like the more I learn the longer than this gets.

Yeah, I totally get it. And you have to start to get to the point where you realize that you're never going to get everything on your list done and that's completely okay. But I definitely, I like to have a, basically one place where I keep this master brain dump list because if I don't have these things written down, then I start to get stressed because I feel like I'm going to forget something super important. But if I have it written down somewhere, at least that I can relax, like, Oh, it's written down. I won't forget about it. I can come back it. So yeah. Yeah.

And I, I even prioritize my list now cause I, cause I had my list and I constantly check things off. So, but unfortunately as soon as I check one thing off, two things get added, but I was like, okay, we have to make even more sense of this beyond. Cause I haven't like per business and all that kind of stuff because I have a couple other businesses. So I have it per business and everything. But I was like, Oh no, no, no anything bold means you have to do it really soon. Like it, this is, this is something you got to do now if it's regular. Yeah. I can have a little bit of time. So like I have like this little system of, of how, how urgent this thing is to get done.

What works for me is at the beginning of the week on Sunday night, I usually sit down and I put all of my appointments in my calendar for the week. I have a little planner that has like one day per page on my desk. Then I take a little, I guess it's like a four by six lined Post-It note. And on there I write out like three to five things that I would love to get done that week. Like the, those are the things that sometimes it's a, I have this client session that needs to get out the door or you know, something like that. But usually it's, you know, more working on my business. So maybe it's updating something on the website, maybe it's. So I need to get, you know, some podcasts get scheduled, maybe it's I need to update my pricing guide for 2020, and finally finalize that. So those types of things I find that's the best way I have like a master list on the computer that I just keep dumping things on. But then I, you know, really thinking about what do I really need in my business this week and try not to do too many things. And I've found having that focus allows me to sit down in the morning when I get to my desk and like, Oh yeah, I'm doing that today. And I can knock that out early before I start doing emails and doing this and doing that and getting like, you know, sucked down various rabbit holes. So yeah, I found that has worked out very well, but yeah, you're never done. You're never done building your business and there's so many things, you know? Yes. Would it be nice to do this? Of course. But does it mean that no one's gonna hire you until you do that? Usually not. So it's definitely finding the balance of what do you need to do versus be feeling like you're prepared to put your things out to the world, you know, versus what's okay to just wait and have a as a future idea. Just take

Yeah. Yeah. Thankfully I met I'm at a point where it's like, at least it's a functioning business. Like the website is done until I get a couple more product samples in, but like I have email on some automated emails that go out as somebody who inquires and things like that. So it's like, and I have stuff to give them pricing, inquiry, a welcome guide. And I have all those guides and things like that. So at least I feel like the business can run. It's not the business I dream of, but it's, it's there. It's functional. It looks good. It's not an embarrassment.

Can you grow? You keep moving it towards the direction of, of what you want. Yeah. You know, and I think the key to that too, is to approach where your business is right now from a place of gratitude of, you know, I'm so thankful that I've gotten this together. And I'm so thankful that I've, you know, sent this out and made this connection with this marketing partner or this client, because that just puts us in a whole different space and just brings in more, more goodness. So anytime I can do that, I think is it's such an important thing. Yeah, definitely. One other thing I want to touch on Kim before we wrap this up is I would love to get your opinion and thoughts on just what the difference of your day to day, like how you felt going through your days, kind of your head space from when you were starting and in student mode and scared to move forward, take action, questioning your, your worthiness of, can I do this kind of thing versus now where you still have a giant to do list like that, that hasn't gone away, but you're committed to moving forward, taking action, doing the things that might be a little bit scarier. What's been the biggest difference that you've seen.

The biggest difference is when I was in student mode with each class I took or each video I watched and, or book I read, I was thinking, Oh my gosh, there's so much to do. It's so overwhelming. I just, you know, I, I don't know if I could put all these pieces together and make it an actual working thing. And so, you know, I would avoid things cause it was like, I don't know. I don't, you know, is that the right thing to do? And I would just second guess everything. And then when for me, Elevate is what kicked me in the pants. I was like,

Lovingly, we'd lovingly kick you in the pants.

It's been amazing. So, you know, but it was, but now like I just took, you know, when I was just like, okay, just take the action. So each day I'm more focused on I'm going to do this action, no matter whether it's good, bad, indifferent, I'm just going to do the action. And then that will bring me clarity to either to realize that, Hey, it was fine and I can move on or there's something I need to learn about this specifically. So my learning became more focused. My actions became more focused because I wasn't just looking at it all in one big chunk. Like as I was a specific action, my questions became about that action and not like, Oh my God, but where, where do I start? How do I market? It wasn't those big general questions, which are hard to nail.

Right? Right. Cause they have 37,000 steps

Make it to an actual thing. But once you start, once you start taking the action, then you, then you realize what you need to know that you don't know that. What, what was scaring you and what was holding you up? You're like, Oh, that specific thing. That's what it was. And now that I get clarity on that, now I can improve upon the action and

Move forward. Yup. Yeah. One of the things that, um, I think so important too, is for in Elevate, we do our goal-setting them a little bit differently. As you know, we have monthly action items. So it's having you guys focus and think of what is one thing, not 10 things. What is one thing that I can do this month that's going to have the biggest impact in my business. And at the end of the month, we don't care what the outcome was. I don't care if you hit a goal. If you had, you know, 10 clients book from it, if you had zero clients book from it, all we care about is did you do it because that leads to all those things you just said, you're, they're going to get the results you wanted or the lesson you needed. And then, you know, you have more information to start again. If it didn't have the results that you wanted. And by taking that action is what leads us to clarity. What's grows our business. It's what actually creates all the things that we want, but we just have to take those steps first. So yeah, I think that's a great way to wrap this up. Gosh, thank you so much, Ken, for sharing, I feel like this was a really good episode with it's critical intangible stuff, but I think it's really the biggest, ah, what's the word I'm looking for. I guess difference between maybe people that are spinning their wheels in their business and never making any progress and the people that start to make some progress in their business and start to see things happen is this ability to take the action, whether it's hard or not hard, not to assign meaning to it, just take the action, see what the results are and figure out what your next action is and just keep on going. So thank you for sharing your story with us. Well, thank you for letting me share it. And of course talking through of course, of course. So, um, if our listeners want to see more adorable corgis and follow your wonderful work, go ahead and let us know where everyone can find you. Yeah. So, um, I have Kim Hoshal dog photography on Instagram and Facebook, Tim[inaudible] photography.com my website. And if you just specifically want to see corgis, you know, Lucas has his own page. I love it. You know, so lessons from Lucas is his page and obviously you're going to see my photography, but uh, yeah. So that's his own private page? Instagram or is that a website? He has Instagram and he has Facebook. Okay, perfect. I love it. Yeah. And all those links will be in the show notes. So you guys can go check it out and follow Lucas. I love it. He gets much more followers than I do. He's more popular. All of our dogs do. Cause I know that I'll be a total slacker and not keep up with it. So, um, Oh yeah. And I keep trying to streamline off of him. I'm like, well maybe, you know, I could just attach to him. I can, you know, ride off of his success. Yeah. You can make an employee of your business. Like he, you know, has model fees. Actually. It could probably check with the CPA. This is not a, uh, tax, um, thing to do, but I wonder if you could make, you know, Lucas hires you to take pictures for his Instagram account. Although I guess he'd be paying you from your money. So nevermind that doesn't work. Wouldn't that be awesome. We keep telling them, it's like, you need to stop modeling for just me. Cause he might as my bandanas too. So it's like, that's great, but you're not earning your keep. Right, right. Straight up model. That's funny. I love it. Next girl. Grumpy cat lessons from Lucas. I need some merch. Oh awesome. All right, Kim, thank you again so much. Really appreciate you taking the time and we will see you around the interwebs. Great. See you later. Hey, pet photographers. Are you struggling to bring your vision to life? Do you long for creating a style that is true to you? Are you ready to leave the fads and trends behind and learn how to create a style that is uniquely yours so that your work can stand apart here at hair of the dog, we are hosting a free five day unleash your style challenge to help you do just that registration is open now. So go to www.hairofthedogacademy.com forward slash unleash to save your seat. We can't wait to see what you create.