When Do I Start Charging with Heather Lahtinen

IN THIS EPISODE:

#105 - Deciding when to start charging for your work is like having a baby: You're never going to feel completely ready. If you're a human—and I assume that you are—you'll always make mistakes and have room for improvement. Regardless, this week Heather and I hope to convince you that if someone in your market is willing to pay you for photography, then forpetessake LET THEM PAY YOU!!! Have a listen, and hear us out.

What To Listen For:

The components of an MVP (that's 'Minimum Viable Product')
How to set appropriate client expectations if you're new
The "dead zone" of photography pricing
What to say when you need to re-shoot a session
How to Malcolm Gladwell your way into better images

Still don't feel like you're ready to charge? Try running your reasons through Heather's BS Detector—it's the surefire way to know if they're legit, or just excuses protecting your ego from bumps and bruises.

Resources From This Episode:

Connect with us on Instagram and YouTube.
Explore valuable pet photography resources here
Discover effective pricing and sales strategies for all portrait photographers.
Ready to grow your business? Elevate helps you do just that.
Check out our recommended gear and favorite books.

Full Transcript ›

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Welcome to the hair of the dog podcast.

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I'm Nicole Begley.

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And today we have Heather Lawton and back again.

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Yes. Again,

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I know you guys love her though.

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And her and I are having a conversation talking about when

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it's appropriate to start charging in your pet photography business.

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So if you have been photographing for one week or three

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years or even longer,

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it doesn't matter.

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If you have been wondering when the right time to start

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charging is well,

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we're going to give you some answers.

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So stay tuned.

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Welcome to the hair of the dog podcast.If

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you're a pet photographer,

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ready to make more money and start living a life by

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your design,

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you've come to the right place.

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And now your host,

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pet photographer,

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travel addict,

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chocolate martini connoisseur,

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Nicole Begley.

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Hey everybody,

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Nicole here from hair of the dog.

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And welcome back to the hair of the dog podcast,

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where we have the one,

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the only Heather Lawton and joining us again today,

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we are talking about how the heck do you know when

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you're ready to start charging in your photography business?

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Welcome back,

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Heather. Thank you.

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Thank you,

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Nicole. I love this topic,

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but what's funny is whenever you approach me and you say,

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Hey, would you like to do a podcast on?

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Literally does not matter to me what you say next to

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the answer is yes.

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I love being here.

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I love talking with you.

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I love serving your audience.

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So thank you for having me.

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Oh, you're welcome.

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And when you say that my head starts to go to

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what kind of obscure topics can we possibly do on the

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podcast. We've already talked extensively about our underwear in both of

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our first two money money series.

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We're getting a lot of comments about that.

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If you guys haven't listened to this episodes,

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you should definitely go back and check them out.

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Yes. So 95 and it's the first one.

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And then episode number 101,

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those are our first two of a six part money mindset

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series that we're going to be doing throughout the rest of

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the year.

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So definitely go check them out.

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But today we're talking about getting our businesses up off the

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ground, because I'll tell you what I see Heather.

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And let me know if you see it in your groups

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as well with your people.

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I see a lot of people that are producing really beautiful

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work that think they're not ready to take money or go

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in business.

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Oh my goodness.

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Yes. And it's actually a little bit frustrating,

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really frustrating because they're more than ready.

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They just don't think that they are.

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And sometimes they'll say to me,

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Heather, I'm not ready to charge to which I respond.

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How will you know,

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when you are ready?

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And then I get a variety of responses back.

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It's usually a list of some sort of obscure because the

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truth is they'll never know.

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You'll never feel totally ready.

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So they'll say things like,

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I mean,

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I don't know when I'm more confident.

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Okay. How will,

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you know,

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when you're more confident when I can take photos that are

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always sharp,

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a hundred percent sharp photos,

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better stop.

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I said,

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oh wow,

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I'm in trouble because that's never going to happen.

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Nor are you ever going to be perfectly content or 100%

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confident in what you're producing.

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It's right.

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It's more of what you believe about what you're capable of

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rather than your actual skillset.

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Absolutely. And I noticed,

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you know,

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I tell people this all the time that almost every session,

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I think probably even every session I come home and I

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download my images and there's always something like,

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oh, how did I not catch that?

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Or, oh,

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I wish I would've done that.

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Or, oh,

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I forgot to do this.

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So I've been doing this for over 10 years and I

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still have regularly those moments of wanting to improve a feeling

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like I could have done a little bit better.

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So I think that's just par and par par for course,

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par, It's going to go on forever.

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That's never,

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that's never going to go away.

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I'm almost 20 years,

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two decades into my business.

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And I still occasionally walk out of a church where I'm

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photographing it,

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say ISO 2000 and take photos outside at ISR 2000,

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because I forget,

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and or I take photos that aren't sharper and focus or

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I forget to change something.

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And I think how did I miss that?

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Well, because I'm a human.

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So is everyone listening?

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I would assume.

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And if that's the case,

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you're never going to reach this mythical perfection of totally confident

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you feel great about it because you're always going to make

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mistakes. Can you be okay with that?

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Can you charge and be okay with the fact that you

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might make some mistakes and some of these mistakes might be

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pretty big.

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Could you be okay with that?

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Right. Right.

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Well, here's the thing too.

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That takes a little bit of pressure off.

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I think as a wedding photographer,

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did those mistakes have some serious ramifications Portrait photographer?

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I mean,

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worst case scenario,

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we can easily reshoot that.

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You can't really call the bride and be like,

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Hey Susie,

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so we need to reshoot your wedding.

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Yeah. And I actually,

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w you know,

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I teach a lot of different types of photographers.

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And I say to them,

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if you are anything other than a wedding or event photographer,

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I am so sorry.

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I cannot feel badly for you if you're stressing out over

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this. Cause you could reshoot.

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I can't,

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I do not have that option nor do I have control

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over anything the day,

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the time,

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the light,

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the crazy church lady,

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nothing. I'm totally out of control.

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I can't pick locations.

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You guys can shoot when you want,

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where you want.

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You could reshoot.

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It's a couple of hours.

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Come on.

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If, if you,

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so what have you screw it?

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What I'm saying is,

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so what if you make a mistake you're which you're bound

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to do,

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do you have to reshoot a session?

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Okay. Does that hurt your pride?

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Maybe that's a problem.

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You have to make a phone call that says,

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oh, I kind of mess something up.

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And I'd really like to reshoot this because it's not up

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to my standards.

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Okay. Is anybody going to die in that scenario?

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Well, and even before we do that though,

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because I think I see a lot of people that feel

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like they need to call and offer a reshoot.

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When in actuality,

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the photos are just fine.

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They're just maybe not as great as you had hoped,

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but the client is still going to absolutely love them.

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Yes. We had someone in elevate.

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I was talking to last week about this and she went

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into immediately make a phone call.

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And I said,

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hold on,

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stop. What I want you to do is edit the photos.

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I want you to go through the photos and do you

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have enough that are up to your standards because you might,

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and you just don't realize it.

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And once you edit,

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after you look at that number and you look at the

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code, then you make a decision.

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Do I need to make a phone call?

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And in that phone call,

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you don't need to say that you screwed up or you

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made a mistake.

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You can simply say,

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these photos are not up to my standards.

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And I would love to offer you a reshoot.

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That's it.

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And I learned the client would appreciate,

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I would have an even better way to say that.

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Instead of saying like,

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oh, these photos all suck because essentially kind of what you're

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starting to say with,

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like, they're not up to my standards instead.

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What if you called them and said something like,

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you know,

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I just went through our gallery and I love what we

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have, but there's not the variety,

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or I love to give you a little bit more variety

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into your session.

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Can we meet again and just add a little bit more

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before you even do that,

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just to reframe before you even do that,

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ask yourself,

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what is the client wanting to do with these images?

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Anyway, if they're contacting you because they want to do one

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wall piece,

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you don't need to show them 47 images.

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Like if you have 10 decent images,

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you're good to go.

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That's right.

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I think a lot of photographers fall into this trap of

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overshooting oversharing,

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and then our clients have a really hard time trying to

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figure out what the heck to do with 82 photos.

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That's actually a really good point.

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Have you ever considered that you are possibly overwhelming your client

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with all of those photos anyway,

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and maybe this bad shoe that,

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you know,

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somebody who's classified as being a failure was a good thing

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because you discovered that you only needed to deliver 10 to

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15 good images.

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The client picked one,

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and then you're done.

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Maybe there's a good lesson in there.

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Yeah. I have found my sweet spot for sessions.

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It's usually about 30 to 40 images for,

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unless it's somebody that's contacted me about really wanting to do

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just one piece for a normal session that wants some digital

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files. Once a wall piece plus or minus an album,

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I find 30 to 40 images is like my perfect sweet

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spot for having enough variety to share with them.

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But without totally overwhelming them or sharing them with five images

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look exactly the same.

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Cause here's what happens too.

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When you share a whole bunch of images and you're like,

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here's five that look the same.

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And here's five that look the same.

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And here's four that look the same.

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They're going to pick maybe one from each of those.

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And so you start to like get them in the habit

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of looking at all these images,

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images, and like knocking all,

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but one knocking all but one where if there's all variety,

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they look at them and they're just like,

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oh my gosh,

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I want them all.

263
00:09:20,010 --> 00:09:20,760
How do I get them all?

264
00:09:21,210 --> 00:09:23,250
Actually, That's a really big pet peeve of mine,

265
00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:24,180
no pun intended.

266
00:09:24,510 --> 00:09:28,530
And that if you are giving your client 5,

267
00:09:28,530 --> 00:09:29,400
6, 7,

268
00:09:29,450 --> 00:09:31,380
whatever of a very similar image,

269
00:09:31,380 --> 00:09:35,910
what you are asking them to do is your job.

270
00:09:35,940 --> 00:09:38,220
Your job is to narrow them down and show them the

271
00:09:38,220 --> 00:09:39,810
best of the best not I take,

272
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:40,170
you know,

273
00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:42,000
if I'm doing a headshot of a bride.

274
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:42,840
Yeah. For sure.

275
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,310
I take 20 of that shot,

276
00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:45,210
slightly different angles.

277
00:09:45,450 --> 00:09:46,350
I'm picking one,

278
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:47,910
maybe two,

279
00:09:47,910 --> 00:09:51,060
if there's one with a full smile and one looking down

280
00:09:51,060 --> 00:09:52,170
or something of that nature,

281
00:09:52,170 --> 00:09:54,810
but there has to be something that's different about them.

282
00:09:54,990 --> 00:09:56,880
Because if I show her similar ones,

283
00:09:56,910 --> 00:09:59,010
I am giving her my job,

284
00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,300
which could end up leading to decision fatigue Before they get

285
00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:05,370
to the point of actually what they want to order.

286
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,250
Exactly. And that's not what you want.

287
00:10:08,610 --> 00:10:09,540
So I would,

288
00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,040
oh, really seriously.

289
00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:12,330
When I hear wedding photographers,

290
00:10:12,330 --> 00:10:13,710
delivering thousands of images,

291
00:10:13,710 --> 00:10:14,010
I'm like,

292
00:10:14,010 --> 00:10:16,500
why would you do that to a client that does not

293
00:10:16,890 --> 00:10:17,640
serve them?

294
00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:22,200
You need to deliver unique images in with occasional variety.

295
00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:22,740
Of course.

296
00:10:22,740 --> 00:10:24,450
Like if like I just described,

297
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,310
but not have the same image.

298
00:10:26,340 --> 00:10:27,600
No, you narrow it down.

299
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:28,350
That's your job.

300
00:10:28,380 --> 00:10:31,830
That's what they're paying you for service A hundred percent.

301
00:10:31,830 --> 00:10:32,160
And you know,

302
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:32,610
for me,

303
00:10:32,610 --> 00:10:33,300
for pets,

304
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,480
I tend to show clients like a closed mouth and an

305
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:37,140
open mouth.

306
00:10:37,170 --> 00:10:38,880
Like if there's totally different expressions,

307
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,770
because I used to way back in the day,

308
00:10:40,770 --> 00:10:41,880
I'd asked my clients,

309
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,580
do you prefer your dog with an open mouth or closed

310
00:10:44,580 --> 00:10:45,420
mouth? Well,

311
00:10:45,420 --> 00:10:46,320
that gives me an answer,

312
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,480
but they haven't had their dog photograph before.

313
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,180
So they might have a preference for real life,

314
00:10:51,540 --> 00:10:53,820
but they have no idea what they're actually going to like

315
00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:55,290
in their photos until they see them.

316
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,690
So I do show variety in that way.

317
00:10:57,690 --> 00:10:58,620
So it might be the same,

318
00:10:58,620 --> 00:10:59,910
other than that little expression,

319
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,060
but I'm not going to show them too with the same,

320
00:11:03,060 --> 00:11:03,930
like mouth open,

321
00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:04,740
happy grin,

322
00:11:05,610 --> 00:11:06,690
Delete one dish,

323
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:07,770
just pick the best.

324
00:11:07,770 --> 00:11:09,300
Okay. But how does,

325
00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:12,480
if we have a new photographer who's starting out or maybe

326
00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:15,150
even some of them are not new and they've been doing

327
00:11:15,150 --> 00:11:15,780
it for a while,

328
00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:18,150
but they still don't feel ready.

329
00:11:18,180 --> 00:11:19,320
When will I feel ready?

330
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,210
What is your advice that you give them?

331
00:11:22,140 --> 00:11:24,690
I there's a couple of different ways.

332
00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:26,580
Like if you've been doing it for a while and people

333
00:11:26,580 --> 00:11:26,820
are like,

334
00:11:26,820 --> 00:11:27,600
man, you're ready.

335
00:11:28,050 --> 00:11:28,890
Just, just go.

336
00:11:28,950 --> 00:11:30,960
You just need to start getting some money,

337
00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:32,550
start accepting some money.

338
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:34,320
And then something will shift in your brain.

339
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:34,710
And you're like,

340
00:11:34,740 --> 00:11:37,260
oh, this isn't as scary and terrible and awful.

341
00:11:37,260 --> 00:11:38,010
As I realized,

342
00:11:38,010 --> 00:11:42,390
and I am allowed to actually earn some money,

343
00:11:42,390 --> 00:11:43,680
doing something that I like,

344
00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:47,790
because I think there's a lot of people that society,

345
00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:49,080
parents, school,

346
00:11:49,260 --> 00:11:55,000
whatever have drilled into our subconscious that it's not right.

347
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,340
Or that we shouldn't be making money,

348
00:11:57,340 --> 00:11:58,930
doing something that we love.

349
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:00,940
That that should just be like a hobby,

350
00:12:01,390 --> 00:12:02,860
Right. Or that you should give it away.

351
00:12:02,860 --> 00:12:04,090
If you love it so much,

352
00:12:04,090 --> 00:12:06,550
you should Tell the world to get paid,

353
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:07,870
right. Something that you love.

354
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:08,800
Right. Right.

355
00:12:09,670 --> 00:12:10,570
To which I say,

356
00:12:12,540 --> 00:12:14,170
I disagree strongly with that.

357
00:12:14,260 --> 00:12:15,910
You can get paid for it.

358
00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:16,630
Of course.

359
00:12:16,930 --> 00:12:18,970
And if you're asking the question,

360
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:20,170
am I ready to charge?

361
00:12:20,350 --> 00:12:23,770
I can almost unequivocally tell you that the answer to that

362
00:12:23,770 --> 00:12:24,400
question is,

363
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,160
yes, you are ready because you're asking the question.

364
00:12:27,340 --> 00:12:30,070
The fact that you're asking the question tells me,

365
00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:31,060
you enjoy it.

366
00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:32,440
You've been doing it.

367
00:12:32,590 --> 00:12:35,680
Whether that's a couple of weeks or a couple of years,

368
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:37,420
you have fun.

369
00:12:37,570 --> 00:12:40,420
You want to offer your services or someone has asked you.

370
00:12:40,420 --> 00:12:42,220
So if you've ever asked that question,

371
00:12:42,370 --> 00:12:43,570
am I ready to start charging?

372
00:12:43,570 --> 00:12:46,930
Just the natural answer to that honestly is yes.

373
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,210
Just by the fact that you're asking the question,

374
00:12:49,390 --> 00:12:51,310
Right. That goes along with,

375
00:12:51,340 --> 00:12:52,900
if you're asking yourself,

376
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:53,740
oh man,

377
00:12:53,830 --> 00:12:55,690
I don't want to be seen as a fraud.

378
00:12:55,690 --> 00:12:56,320
Or I feel like,

379
00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,120
like I'm a fraud or imposter a fraud would not actually

380
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,620
be asking that question that you're asking that question.

381
00:13:06,070 --> 00:13:07,540
You answered the question for yourself.

382
00:13:08,740 --> 00:13:09,370
You are not,

383
00:13:09,370 --> 00:13:11,560
you know what I always say about that fraud and imposter

384
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:12,430
syndrome. I'm like,

385
00:13:12,430 --> 00:13:13,630
that's only a problem.

386
00:13:13,630 --> 00:13:15,790
If you're trying to pretend like you're a neurosurgeon,

387
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:19,090
right? What do you mean?

388
00:13:19,090 --> 00:13:21,610
You think you're a fraud because you want to photograph dogs.

389
00:13:22,510 --> 00:13:28,720
Right? Even harm makes sense to me,

390
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:29,350
but that's,

391
00:13:29,740 --> 00:13:30,160
by the way,

392
00:13:30,190 --> 00:13:31,330
I don't think it's their fault.

393
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,030
I think this is the ego at the subconscious level,

394
00:13:34,030 --> 00:13:34,930
trying to protect us,

395
00:13:34,930 --> 00:13:35,620
keep us safe.

396
00:13:35,650 --> 00:13:38,320
All of those things that you just question everything,

397
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:39,550
but you're,

398
00:13:39,580 --> 00:13:40,270
you're ready.

399
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,370
I personally think that you're ready.

400
00:13:42,670 --> 00:13:43,180
I mean,

401
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,010
I was gonna say when you buy the camera,

402
00:13:45,580 --> 00:13:46,810
but when you have a camera,

403
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:47,410
cause I was going to say,

404
00:13:47,410 --> 00:13:48,460
when you buy a good camera,

405
00:13:48,460 --> 00:13:50,890
but that's not true because I photograph my first wedding with

406
00:13:50,890 --> 00:13:51,550
a point and shoot.

407
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,670
So I don't even know that that's a required.

408
00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:54,910
I mean,

409
00:13:54,910 --> 00:13:55,450
do you,

410
00:13:55,870 --> 00:13:57,490
do you have minimum requirements?

411
00:13:58,030 --> 00:13:59,110
So yes and no.

412
00:13:59,260 --> 00:14:03,130
I feel that if you are picking up your phone camera

413
00:14:03,130 --> 00:14:05,170
and you get a good picture of a dog and someone's

414
00:14:05,170 --> 00:14:05,770
like, Hey,

415
00:14:05,770 --> 00:14:07,420
can I give you 20 bucks for that?

416
00:14:07,420 --> 00:14:09,760
Can I give you a dinner gift card?

417
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:10,450
The answer is,

418
00:14:10,510 --> 00:14:11,170
oh, thank you.

419
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:12,070
You know that?

420
00:14:12,220 --> 00:14:14,650
I think a lot of people will,

421
00:14:14,650 --> 00:14:15,370
will no,

422
00:14:15,370 --> 00:14:15,880
no, no,

423
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:16,240
no, no,

424
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,800
no. Like somebody wants to pay you,

425
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:18,400
let them pay you.

426
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:20,830
And you know,

427
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,190
I don't want anyone to misconstrue what we're saying here either

428
00:14:24,190 --> 00:14:24,970
about like,

429
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:25,780
oh whatever,

430
00:14:25,780 --> 00:14:27,280
we don't care how much your work sucks.

431
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,260
Just go out and run a business.

432
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:30,160
Of course,

433
00:14:30,190 --> 00:14:32,320
we always want to be improving our craft.

434
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:33,730
I'm still improving my craft.

435
00:14:33,730 --> 00:14:35,050
It's always this journey.

436
00:14:35,140 --> 00:14:41,140
And if it helps you feel more secure in charging to

437
00:14:41,140 --> 00:14:42,640
know that you're at,

438
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,240
basically I call it a minimum viable product or a minimum

439
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,280
viable, you know,

440
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:49,570
like image quality.

441
00:14:49,810 --> 00:14:50,680
And that is,

442
00:14:50,770 --> 00:14:52,760
that has correct exposure.

443
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:53,900
Meaning there's not like,

444
00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:54,290
you know,

445
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,990
locked up blacks or blown out highlights and important parts of

446
00:14:56,990 --> 00:14:59,090
the image that the white balance is correct.

447
00:14:59,510 --> 00:15:00,490
And maybe,

448
00:15:00,530 --> 00:15:00,890
you know,

449
00:15:00,890 --> 00:15:03,560
it's in focus and you have a little bit of expression

450
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:04,490
as a bonus.

451
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,850
Like if you have those four things you want a hundred

452
00:15:07,850 --> 00:15:08,990
percent are ready to charge,

453
00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:09,530
that's fine.

454
00:15:09,540 --> 00:15:11,150
If you aren't sure.

455
00:15:11,780 --> 00:15:12,590
Like Heather said,

456
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:13,490
if you're asking,

457
00:15:13,490 --> 00:15:14,360
you're likely ready,

458
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,710
but if you want that extra like confidence builder somebody to

459
00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:22,400
like give you that approval letter that says here's your approval

460
00:15:22,610 --> 00:15:24,590
from the police of the photography world.

461
00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:26,750
You're allowed to go charge now and then ask,

462
00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:26,960
you know,

463
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,160
ask a professional.

464
00:15:28,220 --> 00:15:30,830
That's been doing this ask cause in a group like the

465
00:15:30,830 --> 00:15:32,720
flourish academy or the hair of the dog academy.

466
00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:33,800
And we'll we'll,

467
00:15:33,860 --> 00:15:35,630
we'll tell you 100% tell you,

468
00:15:35,660 --> 00:15:37,400
oh, you need to work on your exposure.

469
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:38,750
Or this is out of focus.

470
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:39,650
So focus,

471
00:15:39,650 --> 00:15:42,650
exposure, white balance bonus points for expression.

472
00:15:42,890 --> 00:15:44,780
That's really all you need.

473
00:15:44,930 --> 00:15:45,350
But Heather,

474
00:15:46,190 --> 00:15:46,730
I gotta tell you,

475
00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:48,410
I just got back from teaching.

476
00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:50,900
How vision with Kaylee and Sam from dog breath,

477
00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:52,460
photography in Breckenridge,

478
00:15:52,460 --> 00:15:54,470
Colorado was supposed to be in Tahoe,

479
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:56,240
but who's going to be in March now because of the

480
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:57,350
whole fire situation.

481
00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,190
But anyway,

482
00:15:58,310 --> 00:16:00,080
hair of the dog academy.com/hound

483
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,300
vision, if you want to get on the wait list for

484
00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:02,990
our Tahoe,

485
00:16:02,990 --> 00:16:03,950
March retreats,

486
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,070
regardless. Now I totally even forget what I was talking about.

487
00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:08,420
Remember, I remember,

488
00:16:08,450 --> 00:16:10,280
okay. So it has vision,

489
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:12,830
Kayla and I were sharing our early work and kind of

490
00:16:12,830 --> 00:16:14,120
our evolution of our style.

491
00:16:14,450 --> 00:16:15,290
And I got to tell you,

492
00:16:15,770 --> 00:16:16,400
well, first of all,

493
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,040
I couldn't share work for my first year because I lost

494
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,690
it. Not from a hard drive failure,

495
00:16:20,690 --> 00:16:21,680
but just from a,

496
00:16:21,950 --> 00:16:28,550
not having proper file systems in place and then changing computers.

497
00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:29,690
And you know,

498
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,490
it was on some other computer.

499
00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:33,470
It never made the jump to a new computer.

500
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:34,820
So those are gone.

501
00:16:35,090 --> 00:16:37,910
But I shared some of my work from 2011,

502
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:41,630
which is after I was in business for an entire year.

503
00:16:42,830 --> 00:16:46,070
And they were not properly exposed to not have proper white

504
00:16:46,070 --> 00:16:49,100
balance, had no light in the eyes had very little expression

505
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:51,980
somewhat in focus though.

506
00:16:52,070 --> 00:16:52,730
So I had that.

507
00:16:53,150 --> 00:16:55,130
Right. So why was that?

508
00:16:55,130 --> 00:16:56,420
Do you think you were just unaware?

509
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:57,920
Yeah, I thought they were great.

510
00:16:58,500 --> 00:17:01,340
Right. Then you were like,

511
00:17:01,340 --> 00:17:02,660
wow, look what I produced.

512
00:17:02,660 --> 00:17:04,790
Right. Cause it was better than what I used to do.

513
00:17:04,790 --> 00:17:06,410
So I was improving,

514
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:06,770
you know,

515
00:17:06,770 --> 00:17:10,940
and quite frankly it was likely better than what the client

516
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,170
could do on their own.

517
00:17:12,830 --> 00:17:16,400
Certainly it's not going to be winning any awards or making

518
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,800
me feel good about myself in my current day and age.

519
00:17:19,170 --> 00:17:20,090
Why are you charging?

520
00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:24,380
Oh, I was still averaging a thousand dollars a session.

521
00:17:24,950 --> 00:17:25,790
You are,

522
00:17:25,820 --> 00:17:27,500
you were a champion right out of the gate.

523
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,570
Because back in the day when I started,

524
00:17:29,570 --> 00:17:30,950
it was like $50.

525
00:17:31,010 --> 00:17:31,310
I mean,

526
00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:31,970
I did have,

527
00:17:31,970 --> 00:17:35,450
I did have a couple months where I was charging like

528
00:17:35,450 --> 00:17:36,800
200 bucks for a whole session,

529
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:37,730
like 1 75,

530
00:17:37,730 --> 00:17:38,870
I think it was right.

531
00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:40,520
And you get all the stuff,

532
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:41,090
right. You know,

533
00:17:41,090 --> 00:17:42,980
I had some mini sessions for $95.

534
00:17:42,980 --> 00:17:45,320
You get all the digitals.

535
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,650
But I quickly tell it's only a couple months because that

536
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,510
was summer of 2010 spring,

537
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:52,260
summer of 2010.

538
00:17:52,650 --> 00:17:53,310
And I was pregnant.

539
00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:55,740
I had my son calling an August and I kind of

540
00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:56,880
took the fall winter off.

541
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,490
And then that following January.

542
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,070
So that January might've been the January before,

543
00:18:02,490 --> 00:18:03,600
I can't remember early on,

544
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:04,800
I went to imaging USA,

545
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,990
PA's big conference and really got smacked in the face by

546
00:18:10,410 --> 00:18:11,940
how I should actually be pricing.

547
00:18:12,420 --> 00:18:16,770
I work and given lots of different ideas and basically showing

548
00:18:16,780 --> 00:18:19,440
the world of this boutique photography business.

549
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:21,030
So I realized I had to change my ways.

550
00:18:21,030 --> 00:18:21,480
So I,

551
00:18:21,540 --> 00:18:27,210
I really thankful for that because going to that conference set

552
00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:30,810
me up in a way that allowed me to set up

553
00:18:30,810 --> 00:18:34,470
my business profitably from the early stages,

554
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,640
even though my work was not yet what I consider technically

555
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,260
sound Great.

556
00:18:40,650 --> 00:18:41,540
That's a good way to put,

557
00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:43,500
but based on your own criteria,

558
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:44,790
the criteria that you have now,

559
00:18:45,060 --> 00:18:47,910
you would have not been ready to chart.

560
00:18:48,570 --> 00:18:49,200
Right. But,

561
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:50,610
but who's to say,

562
00:18:50,610 --> 00:18:53,010
you're not because if someone's willing to pay you,

563
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:54,030
it's the same thing.

564
00:18:54,030 --> 00:18:55,830
As when we sold our house in Florida,

565
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:58,140
this was 2005.

566
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,230
So remember it's the lead up to the mortgage crisis.

567
00:19:01,230 --> 00:19:01,830
So, you know,

568
00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:03,750
Florida houses where they were hot,

569
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,380
we bought that house for like 1 95 and then we

570
00:19:07,380 --> 00:19:09,120
ended up selling it about a year and a half,

571
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:11,910
two years later.

572
00:19:11,910 --> 00:19:13,650
I forget the exact numbers.

573
00:19:13,650 --> 00:19:14,880
I think,

574
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:20,130
no, we had sold it for one 40 or three,

575
00:19:20,340 --> 00:19:24,390
sorry, 3 43 was what we were under contract for.

576
00:19:24,450 --> 00:19:28,890
But the appraisal came back like three 20 sway,

577
00:19:28,890 --> 00:19:29,850
ended up settling in the middle.

578
00:19:29,850 --> 00:19:30,420
And I was like,

579
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:30,870
no, no,

580
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,310
no time out.

581
00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:34,230
What is this appraisal nonsense?

582
00:19:34,260 --> 00:19:36,930
The people are buying the house or putting like $90,000

583
00:19:36,930 --> 00:19:39,540
down. So it wasn't a part of the bank,

584
00:19:39,570 --> 00:19:42,030
not wanting to write a loan for more than 80% of

585
00:19:42,030 --> 00:19:43,530
the mortgage because they weren't.

586
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:44,040
So I was like,

587
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,200
well, they're willing to pay that.

588
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,240
So that's what my house is worth.

589
00:19:48,330 --> 00:19:50,520
Not what the appraiser says,

590
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:51,030
my house.

591
00:19:52,110 --> 00:19:53,430
Yes. The market,

592
00:19:54,180 --> 00:19:57,780
the market dictates That someone willing to pay you you're ready

593
00:19:57,780 --> 00:19:58,380
to charge.

594
00:19:58,980 --> 00:19:59,820
Yeah, there it is.

595
00:19:59,940 --> 00:20:01,320
If somebody wants to give you money,

596
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,010
just let them.

597
00:20:02,070 --> 00:20:02,700
How about that?

598
00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:03,420
Start there.

599
00:20:03,450 --> 00:20:04,530
You may never feel,

600
00:20:04,590 --> 00:20:04,860
I mean,

601
00:20:04,890 --> 00:20:06,450
I really do want people to ask themselves,

602
00:20:06,450 --> 00:20:07,230
what would it take?

603
00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:08,610
When would you feel ready?

604
00:20:08,820 --> 00:20:11,190
Like what boxes would you have to check off?

605
00:20:11,250 --> 00:20:13,290
And is that really possible?

606
00:20:13,290 --> 00:20:16,110
Is it feasible to say I can check all of those

607
00:20:16,110 --> 00:20:17,370
boxes? Probably not.

608
00:20:17,490 --> 00:20:19,770
So why not start charging now at a rate that you

609
00:20:19,770 --> 00:20:23,280
feel comfortable with and then refine as you grow and learn.

610
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,610
That's exactly what we both did A hundred percent,

611
00:20:27,060 --> 00:20:29,580
but My work I'm sure was not as good as yours.

612
00:20:29,580 --> 00:20:30,540
It was terrible.

613
00:20:32,340 --> 00:20:33,390
We should both.

614
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,220
We should both share some of her old words.

615
00:20:36,540 --> 00:20:40,080
We can't do it on the podcast because it's so we're

616
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:40,800
off the hook.<inaudible>

617
00:20:46,860 --> 00:20:47,470
Oh yeah.

618
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:48,610
You were saying like,

619
00:20:48,610 --> 00:20:49,660
what needs to happen?

620
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:50,920
What needs to be checked off?

621
00:20:51,250 --> 00:20:53,560
And I think as you start to answer that,

622
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,890
well, if you start to actually answer and put it into

623
00:20:56,890 --> 00:20:58,210
tangible pieces,

624
00:20:58,300 --> 00:20:59,710
it might become clear that you're like,

625
00:21:00,790 --> 00:21:01,180
I don't know.

626
00:21:01,180 --> 00:21:03,460
I think I'm making this up because I think what happens

627
00:21:03,820 --> 00:21:04,900
is that our ego,

628
00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:06,520
our subconscious is saying,

629
00:21:06,550 --> 00:21:08,050
oh, you need to check all these boxes,

630
00:21:08,050 --> 00:21:09,730
but I'm not even going to tell you what the exact

631
00:21:09,730 --> 00:21:10,270
boxes are.

632
00:21:10,270 --> 00:21:12,160
And what's going to make you feel like there's 8,000

633
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,310
boxes over here that you haven't checked to keep you safe.

634
00:21:15,580 --> 00:21:19,330
Because if you start putting yourself out there and nobody books

635
00:21:19,330 --> 00:21:19,960
right away,

636
00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:21,640
what's that going to mean about you?

637
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,040
What's that what's that mean about your work?

638
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:27,760
What's that mean about the viability of pursuing this photography thing?

639
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:29,770
Yeah. That's an excellent point.

640
00:21:29,770 --> 00:21:31,570
It's just your ego trying to keep you safe.

641
00:21:31,570 --> 00:21:33,250
So the boxes are imaginary.

642
00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:34,540
So guess what?

643
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:35,890
There are none,

644
00:21:35,980 --> 00:21:37,060
there are no boxes.

645
00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:38,020
You have to check.

646
00:21:38,050 --> 00:21:40,450
If somebody wants to give you money or if you want

647
00:21:40,450 --> 00:21:40,990
to charge,

648
00:21:41,020 --> 00:21:44,590
because the truth is you put money into that camera.

649
00:21:45,130 --> 00:21:48,070
So you spent money to have a piece of equipment that

650
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,770
the person in front of you does not own nor do

651
00:21:50,770 --> 00:21:52,000
they know how to operate.

652
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,040
And even if you only know how to put it in

653
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,120
auto and press the button,

654
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:56,500
you still know more than they do.

655
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:56,860
You know,

656
00:21:56,860 --> 00:21:58,570
it doesn't take much to be an expert.

657
00:21:58,600 --> 00:21:59,230
You just know,

658
00:21:59,230 --> 00:22:01,750
you just need to know more than the person in front

659
00:22:01,750 --> 00:22:02,140
of you.

660
00:22:02,350 --> 00:22:04,330
So if that's the case and they want to pay,

661
00:22:04,330 --> 00:22:05,110
you, let them,

662
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:07,780
you can charge because you spent however much on your camera,

663
00:22:07,810 --> 00:22:09,070
maybe your education.

664
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,430
And even if your work isn't there quite yet,

665
00:22:12,490 --> 00:22:14,710
it's really hard to some degree,

666
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:16,150
Nicole, it's not up to you.

667
00:22:16,990 --> 00:22:19,810
It's up to the market or the potential client or the

668
00:22:19,810 --> 00:22:21,100
person that wants to pay you.

669
00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:22,840
And if they want to pay you and you put it

670
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,210
out there and you can charge and you can accept money.

671
00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:26,530
Because like you said earlier,

672
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,060
there are no photography police.

673
00:22:28,060 --> 00:22:30,370
Nobody's going to come knocking on your door saying you didn't

674
00:22:30,370 --> 00:22:31,810
check the 8,000

675
00:22:31,810 --> 00:22:36,310
imaginary boxes because the truth is you're making crap up in

676
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:38,410
your head about what needs to happen.

677
00:22:38,590 --> 00:22:40,300
When will I be ready?

678
00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:41,590
You're ready right now.

679
00:22:41,890 --> 00:22:43,990
Why? Why not right now?

680
00:22:44,050 --> 00:22:46,360
And I don't think that you could give me a good

681
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:47,290
excuse for that.

682
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:47,980
I really don't.

683
00:22:48,940 --> 00:22:49,840
Let's try it.

684
00:22:49,870 --> 00:22:51,280
If you guys have a good excuse,

685
00:22:51,820 --> 00:22:59,890
Let me hear it All you excuses.

686
00:23:00,070 --> 00:23:02,410
Right? I would love it because I shot my first wedding

687
00:23:02,410 --> 00:23:04,060
with a point and shoot camera and I was terrible.

688
00:23:04,060 --> 00:23:07,690
And I would say probably 90% of the reception images were

689
00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:09,430
blurry because I didn't know what I was doing,

690
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,770
but this person wanted to hire me for now.

691
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,690
I will say I was very honest,

692
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,400
early on because I was shooting weddings.

693
00:23:15,580 --> 00:23:18,160
I want to say something here and I don't want you

694
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,150
to take my advice.

695
00:23:20,410 --> 00:23:21,400
I don't want you to listen to me,

696
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,510
but I want you to hear me.

697
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,190
I would say to my brides,

698
00:23:24,190 --> 00:23:26,830
these very early people who just knew me maybe as a

699
00:23:26,830 --> 00:23:28,090
friend or friend of a friend and said,

700
00:23:28,090 --> 00:23:29,170
would you photograph my wedding?

701
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:30,100
And I said,

702
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:31,480
I am not a professional.

703
00:23:31,810 --> 00:23:33,100
I do not know what I'm doing.

704
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:34,900
I could totally screw up your wedding.

705
00:23:34,990 --> 00:23:36,100
Are you okay with that?

706
00:23:36,190 --> 00:23:36,760
And if they said,

707
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:37,600
yes, then I'd say,

708
00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:38,410
I'm your girl.

709
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:39,940
And I'd photograph their wedding.

710
00:23:40,220 --> 00:23:41,530
A couple of those were free.

711
00:23:41,950 --> 00:23:44,860
And a couple of those were $500 really inexpensive.

712
00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:45,740
But I was very,

713
00:23:45,740 --> 00:23:47,990
very clear up front because it was a wedding.

714
00:23:48,020 --> 00:23:50,390
If you're new and you want to say to people,

715
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:51,890
I'm building my portfolio.

716
00:23:51,890 --> 00:23:53,990
So I'm offering this special pricing.

717
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:57,590
I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say because you're

718
00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:59,690
setting appropriate expectations.

719
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:00,530
That's what I did.

720
00:24:00,590 --> 00:24:02,750
I set appropriate expectations.

721
00:24:03,050 --> 00:24:06,560
And those early clients of mine loved their photos.

722
00:24:06,590 --> 00:24:08,900
They full well know that I delivered things,

723
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:09,620
not in focus.

724
00:24:09,620 --> 00:24:09,830
I mean,

725
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:11,720
it's obvious,

726
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,160
right? They're completely blurred.

727
00:24:13,820 --> 00:24:18,170
I checked with the glass glasses prescription changed.

728
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:19,610
I just didn't care.

729
00:24:19,670 --> 00:24:20,720
I don't think they cared.

730
00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:21,110
You know,

731
00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:21,830
in one case,

732
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:22,790
the bride said to me,

733
00:24:22,970 --> 00:24:24,950
well, w we weren't going to hire a photographer.

734
00:24:25,010 --> 00:24:26,870
So your photos will be better than nothing.

735
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:27,870
I said,

736
00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:32,390
true. I can meet that expectation because you know,

737
00:24:32,750 --> 00:24:34,340
she didn't expect much for me.

738
00:24:34,370 --> 00:24:37,370
And I was very thankful for that opportunity.

739
00:24:37,370 --> 00:24:40,040
So I wouldn't go around preaching to everyone.

740
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:40,730
Hey, I'm brand new.

741
00:24:40,730 --> 00:24:41,780
And I have no clue what I'm doing.

742
00:24:41,810 --> 00:24:43,010
That's not what I'm suggesting,

743
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,250
but you could be honest in saying that you are starting

744
00:24:46,250 --> 00:24:48,080
out and trying to build a portfolio and that,

745
00:24:48,170 --> 00:24:48,530
you know,

746
00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:50,960
that hopefully we'll set some reasonable expectations.

747
00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:53,780
Yeah. And then once you build that portfolio and you set

748
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,040
your website up,

749
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:56,810
by going to your website,

750
00:24:57,050 --> 00:24:58,250
you're only a fraud.

751
00:24:58,250 --> 00:25:00,830
If you're taking other people's images and putting it on your

752
00:25:00,830 --> 00:25:01,910
website and then saying,

753
00:25:01,910 --> 00:25:03,560
Hey, these are my images.

754
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,560
And I'm going to give you something of this caliber.

755
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:07,820
Okay, don't do that.

756
00:25:07,970 --> 00:25:09,440
That's very bad.

757
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,300
But if you're taking those images,

758
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:13,190
you built during that portfolio session,

759
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:14,390
putting it on your website,

760
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:17,600
your potential clients are seeing the work that you're going to

761
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,060
create. And if they're choosing to hire you,

762
00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:21,860
they are very excited about it.

763
00:25:22,250 --> 00:25:23,720
So at that point,

764
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,660
you don't need to say anything about being new because you're

765
00:25:26,690 --> 00:25:27,800
sharing the type of work.

766
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:29,330
And then the more you shoot,

767
00:25:29,450 --> 00:25:31,760
because Kayla and I both noticed suspect to hound vision.

768
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,590
We were sharing that evolution of our style.

769
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:38,900
The years that we both started shooting a lot more quantum

770
00:25:39,260 --> 00:25:42,740
freaking bleeps and the quality of our work.

771
00:25:42,770 --> 00:25:43,370
You guys,

772
00:25:43,580 --> 00:25:46,550
there is no excuse for that 10,000

773
00:25:46,550 --> 00:25:48,740
hours of practice or 10,000

774
00:25:48,740 --> 00:25:49,940
images, 10,000

775
00:25:49,940 --> 00:25:51,350
something. No,

776
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:52,580
it's the rule of 10,000.

777
00:25:52,610 --> 00:25:54,110
Yeah. It's Malcolm Gladwell,

778
00:25:54,110 --> 00:25:58,490
10,000 of hours or raps or whatever it is.

779
00:25:58,850 --> 00:26:00,110
10,000 shoots,

780
00:26:00,110 --> 00:26:01,040
10, whatever.

781
00:26:01,130 --> 00:26:02,870
That's definitely a real thing.

782
00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:03,590
So guess what?

783
00:26:03,620 --> 00:26:05,030
In order to shoot more,

784
00:26:05,810 --> 00:26:09,140
you have to charge so that you can get clients so

785
00:26:09,140 --> 00:26:11,060
that you can shoot more so that you can charge to

786
00:26:11,060 --> 00:26:12,920
shoot more about that.

787
00:26:13,370 --> 00:26:18,050
So you can't wait around and how can you get ready

788
00:26:18,290 --> 00:26:19,700
without taking photos?

789
00:26:20,090 --> 00:26:20,750
Yeah. Well,

790
00:26:20,750 --> 00:26:22,490
and even you said that,

791
00:26:22,490 --> 00:26:22,700
you know,

792
00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:23,810
you have to go out and charge,

793
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:24,380
take photos,

794
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:25,610
but I would venture to say,

795
00:26:25,610 --> 00:26:29,270
you don't even have to find pain clients.

796
00:26:29,630 --> 00:26:32,210
If you want to hit that 10,000

797
00:26:32,210 --> 00:26:36,920
images to really improve your skills quickly,

798
00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:40,250
you're going to make it a rule to shoot once a

799
00:26:40,250 --> 00:26:42,140
week, once a day,

800
00:26:42,770 --> 00:26:43,530
twice month,

801
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,810
whatever it is that fits into your schedule,

802
00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:47,070
you're going to make that happen.

803
00:26:47,070 --> 00:26:48,420
Whether you have paying clients or not,

804
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,010
whether you're volunteering at a shelter,

805
00:26:50,130 --> 00:26:51,720
whether you're photographing your dog,

806
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,250
when you're grabbing a friend's dog,

807
00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:55,470
when you're just meeting someone on the street and saying,

808
00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:56,820
Hey, can I photograph your dog real quick?

809
00:26:56,820 --> 00:26:57,480
Here's my email.

810
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,220
I'll send you some images and,

811
00:26:59,310 --> 00:26:59,760
you know,

812
00:27:00,210 --> 00:27:02,160
bonus if you're going to get paid for it.

813
00:27:02,250 --> 00:27:02,880
Right. But,

814
00:27:03,570 --> 00:27:04,020
you know,

815
00:27:04,170 --> 00:27:05,040
but I don't think,

816
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,240
cause I think a lot of people,

817
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:06,780
not a lot,

818
00:27:06,780 --> 00:27:10,350
some people might hear that and use that as an excuse

819
00:27:10,350 --> 00:27:10,710
of like,

820
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:11,820
well, I don't have any paying clients,

821
00:27:11,820 --> 00:27:13,170
so I shouldn't work on my craft right now.

822
00:27:14,340 --> 00:27:16,080
But how are you going to get better if you don't

823
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:16,980
work on your craft,

824
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:18,270
how is that going to happen?

825
00:27:18,330 --> 00:27:21,090
I distinctly remember being 10 years into my wedding,

826
00:27:21,090 --> 00:27:21,900
photography business,

827
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:23,940
10 years full-time as a wedding photographer,

828
00:27:23,970 --> 00:27:29,070
finally feeling like I hit my stride 10 years and then

829
00:27:29,370 --> 00:27:29,820
I could,

830
00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:33,540
I could charge whatever I wanted because I had the experience.

831
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:34,680
I had the confidence,

832
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:37,080
but how would I get to 10 years if I never

833
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,580
started, if I didn't do the free fire hall wedding,

834
00:27:41,610 --> 00:27:42,780
where everything was blurry.

835
00:27:42,780 --> 00:27:46,080
If I didn't do the backyard wedding for $500,

836
00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:47,640
even though it was terrible,

837
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:48,690
I had to do it.

838
00:27:48,690 --> 00:27:51,480
You have to iterate to move forward.

839
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,280
And in order to iterate to move forward,

840
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:54,540
you have to start.

841
00:27:54,570 --> 00:27:56,820
So even if you just like it,

842
00:27:56,850 --> 00:27:59,160
there's something really powerful in the exchange of money.

843
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:00,960
Like something clicks in your mind,

844
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,210
like both exhilarating.

845
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:03,780
Oh, oh,

846
00:28:03,780 --> 00:28:05,190
have you ever heard this fear?

847
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:08,880
Plus excitement equals exhilaration plus excitement.

848
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:09,360
Yeah. I love it.

849
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:10,320
It's like a rollercoaster.

850
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:10,590
You know,

851
00:28:10,890 --> 00:28:12,780
something happens with an exchange of money,

852
00:28:12,780 --> 00:28:14,610
which I would classify as exhilaration.

853
00:28:14,610 --> 00:28:15,420
There's some fear like,

854
00:28:15,450 --> 00:28:16,050
oh my,

855
00:28:16,410 --> 00:28:18,570
I, now there's some expectations and I have to produce,

856
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,730
but it's also very exciting because it means,

857
00:28:20,730 --> 00:28:22,350
wow, this is possible.

858
00:28:22,410 --> 00:28:23,760
And if this was possible,

859
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:24,360
you know,

860
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:26,070
$50 or $500,

861
00:28:26,430 --> 00:28:28,230
then could I get to thousands of dollars?

862
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:29,130
And the answer is yes,

863
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,120
because people are moving it.

864
00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:33,060
Yeah. You mentioned something before that.

865
00:28:33,060 --> 00:28:35,820
I want to throw in a point to that when you're

866
00:28:36,030 --> 00:28:37,590
shooting for free.

867
00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:39,660
Like if you're just like making that,

868
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,840
that gosh,

869
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:43,230
you know,

870
00:28:43,230 --> 00:28:44,460
you're, you're making that commitment.

871
00:28:44,490 --> 00:28:45,270
That's the word I'm looking for.

872
00:28:45,270 --> 00:28:45,510
I'm like,

873
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:46,440
it's the C word.

874
00:28:47,580 --> 00:28:51,420
Anyway, you're making that commitment to improve your craft and shoot

875
00:28:51,420 --> 00:28:52,290
however often.

876
00:28:52,530 --> 00:28:54,870
And even if you're end up taking free clients during that

877
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:59,190
time, guess what you are setting the stage for more paying

878
00:28:59,190 --> 00:29:01,530
clients in the future because these people know you.

879
00:29:01,530 --> 00:29:02,250
They like you now.

880
00:29:02,250 --> 00:29:03,030
They trust you.

881
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,760
Even if the work you're creating for them is not going

882
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:06,450
to be like,

883
00:29:06,690 --> 00:29:06,960
you know,

884
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,970
award-winning work that you're going to be proud of in 10

885
00:29:08,970 --> 00:29:10,530
years, they still love it.

886
00:29:10,860 --> 00:29:13,890
And I have some clients that I photograph from the very

887
00:29:13,890 --> 00:29:16,200
beginning that stayed with me all the way along,

888
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,160
because they loved me and they enjoyed the experience and they

889
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,030
enjoy their images.

890
00:29:21,030 --> 00:29:24,120
Even though the images they got 10 years later were significantly

891
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,700
better than the ones they got at the beginning.

892
00:29:26,730 --> 00:29:27,810
So really in the ground.

893
00:29:27,870 --> 00:29:29,850
Sure. It's it's relationship.

894
00:29:29,850 --> 00:29:31,740
Building relationships are so important.

895
00:29:31,770 --> 00:29:34,380
I actually did an interview a couple of years ago with

896
00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:36,930
my very first weddings by Heather bride.

897
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:39,480
My very first she came over to visit.

898
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,260
It turns out she's my cousin.

899
00:29:41,260 --> 00:29:42,910
She, she married my cousin.

900
00:29:42,910 --> 00:29:45,520
So I guess what would that make her whatever cousin-in-law whatever.

901
00:29:45,580 --> 00:29:48,520
And we did this interview and I said to her,

902
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:49,090
name's Amanda.

903
00:29:49,090 --> 00:29:49,600
And I said,

904
00:29:49,690 --> 00:29:51,790
I am so nervous right now.

905
00:29:51,790 --> 00:29:53,770
She brought her photos like physical cards.

906
00:29:54,010 --> 00:29:54,550
And she said,

907
00:29:54,550 --> 00:29:55,630
why? And I said,

908
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:56,890
I got to look at these.

909
00:29:58,690 --> 00:30:00,160
I didn't know what I was doing.

910
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,490
And I shot your wedding with a Canon Powershot G three

911
00:30:03,490 --> 00:30:04,540
points. You camera.

912
00:30:04,750 --> 00:30:06,280
I had no clue what I was doing.

913
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,090
And she knew that,

914
00:30:07,090 --> 00:30:07,270
you know,

915
00:30:07,270 --> 00:30:07,990
it wasn't a secret.

916
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,160
And I had done it for free.

917
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,750
It was a backyard wedding at a park.

918
00:30:10,750 --> 00:30:12,940
It was really small and super casual.

919
00:30:13,150 --> 00:30:13,450
And she,

920
00:30:13,530 --> 00:30:15,970
she was looking at me almost strangely Nicole.

921
00:30:15,970 --> 00:30:16,510
And she was like,

922
00:30:16,510 --> 00:30:19,120
Heather, we love our photos.

923
00:30:19,870 --> 00:30:21,580
And I'm like I said,

924
00:30:21,580 --> 00:30:22,090
thank you.

925
00:30:22,090 --> 00:30:22,840
I receive that.

926
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:23,590
But in my head,

927
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:23,950
I'm thinking,

928
00:30:23,950 --> 00:30:24,850
how is that possible?

929
00:30:24,970 --> 00:30:26,380
But if she loves them,

930
00:30:26,410 --> 00:30:29,230
it really doesn't matter what I think about it.

931
00:30:29,410 --> 00:30:31,180
Which is what I said a little bit ago.

932
00:30:31,450 --> 00:30:32,680
It's not up to you.

933
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,040
It's not up to me to say how she feels about

934
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:36,730
those photos.

935
00:30:37,090 --> 00:30:37,840
She loves them.

936
00:30:37,870 --> 00:30:38,560
They're her wedding.

937
00:30:38,590 --> 00:30:39,190
Okay. Done.

938
00:30:39,490 --> 00:30:42,370
Yeah. And by the very nature of photos,

939
00:30:42,370 --> 00:30:46,450
what those photos are doing are creating an emotional connection to

940
00:30:46,450 --> 00:30:47,950
day. It's like an anchor point.

941
00:30:47,950 --> 00:30:50,320
So whether the photos are good or bad,

942
00:30:50,650 --> 00:30:50,920
I mean,

943
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,260
you guys have got to have like random snapshots that you

944
00:30:53,260 --> 00:30:55,750
see. And it's not the best quality per se,

945
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:56,290
but you're like,

946
00:30:56,290 --> 00:30:59,320
man, this takes me right back to my first dog and

947
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:00,970
my front yard when I was six.

948
00:31:01,390 --> 00:31:02,590
And you love it.

949
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,270
So yeah.

950
00:31:04,450 --> 00:31:09,280
Who are we to Rob people of potentially having that by

951
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:10,720
keeping our services to ourselves,

952
00:31:10,900 --> 00:31:11,710
you're being selfish,

953
00:31:12,460 --> 00:31:12,820
that's it?

954
00:31:13,030 --> 00:31:13,480
Oh my gosh.

955
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:14,800
I love that much.

956
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:15,520
Say that again.

957
00:31:15,580 --> 00:31:18,010
You're being selfish because We,

958
00:31:18,010 --> 00:31:21,850
who are we to Rob the opportunity of creating this emotional

959
00:31:21,850 --> 00:31:23,860
connection to their special pet.

960
00:31:24,190 --> 00:31:25,960
If we keep it to ourselves,

961
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:27,340
we're robbing them of that experience.

962
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,230
That is Selfish.

963
00:31:32,350 --> 00:31:34,180
You know what I've asked people before I said,

964
00:31:34,180 --> 00:31:35,590
do you consider yourself selfish?

965
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:36,580
And of course they say no.

966
00:31:36,610 --> 00:31:37,120
And I said,

967
00:31:37,370 --> 00:31:38,440
I don't think you're selfish either.

968
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,610
So why are you acting that way?

969
00:31:41,170 --> 00:31:41,890
Why are you?

970
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,040
Because the selfish part is you're trying to protect your ego

971
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,450
and keep yourself safe.

972
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:47,770
That's the selfish part.

973
00:31:47,770 --> 00:31:48,160
You don't,

974
00:31:48,340 --> 00:31:48,850
you don't like,

975
00:31:48,850 --> 00:31:50,320
it's not conscious that you're doing this.

976
00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:54,820
So what are you ready to charge now?

977
00:31:54,820 --> 00:31:56,560
I don't see why we delay right now.

978
00:31:56,590 --> 00:31:58,120
You're ready right now.

979
00:31:58,150 --> 00:32:00,910
Whether you emotionally feel that or not,

980
00:32:01,180 --> 00:32:02,920
could you just step into it?

981
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,680
Could you do what is the worst that could have,

982
00:32:06,340 --> 00:32:07,000
Right. Right.

983
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:07,630
And you know,

984
00:32:07,630 --> 00:32:09,670
if you're not ready to charge,

985
00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:10,180
you know,

986
00:32:10,180 --> 00:32:13,540
like thousands of dollars for a session and you go through

987
00:32:13,540 --> 00:32:15,460
the profitability of pricing worksheets,

988
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:15,790
you're like,

989
00:32:15,820 --> 00:32:16,300
oh my gosh,

990
00:32:16,330 --> 00:32:18,520
this makes me want to actually vomit in my mouth a

991
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:18,970
little bit.

992
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,460
It's okay to start lower,

993
00:32:21,730 --> 00:32:23,290
to get some experience,

994
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:28,570
to get some practice of feeling that energetic exchange of money

995
00:32:28,690 --> 00:32:31,690
so that then you can start to raise your prices.

996
00:32:31,870 --> 00:32:32,260
You know,

997
00:32:32,260 --> 00:32:35,140
the best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago.

998
00:32:35,140 --> 00:32:37,870
Second best time is now the best time to start charging.

999
00:32:37,870 --> 00:32:40,820
And your photography business was when you started,

1000
00:32:40,850 --> 00:32:42,410
but the second best time is now.

1001
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,060
And yeah.

1002
00:32:44,060 --> 00:32:48,140
And start wherever you feel comfortable and confident and,

1003
00:32:48,170 --> 00:32:48,470
you know,

1004
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:51,350
certainly ask for some help to make sure you're not losing

1005
00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:52,910
money. And you're profitable.

1006
00:32:52,910 --> 00:32:54,680
You want to make sure that your pricing at least covers

1007
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:55,970
any costs that you have,

1008
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,350
especially hard costs,

1009
00:32:57,710 --> 00:32:59,330
but you know,

1010
00:32:59,330 --> 00:33:02,510
it's, it's something that you can start and then raise it

1011
00:33:02,510 --> 00:33:05,090
as you become more confident.

1012
00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:06,980
Right. And I would argue,

1013
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,230
you need to push yourself a little bit past your comfort

1014
00:33:09,230 --> 00:33:10,250
zone. So for instance,

1015
00:33:10,250 --> 00:33:11,450
if somebody comes to me and says,

1016
00:33:11,510 --> 00:33:12,770
okay, I think I can do this.

1017
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,390
Okay. Why not?

1018
00:33:14,390 --> 00:33:16,760
Why couldn't you say a hundred dollars for 10 files?

1019
00:33:16,790 --> 00:33:18,350
Just like somewhere to start.

1020
00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:19,520
If somebody said that to me,

1021
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:19,850
I'd say,

1022
00:33:19,850 --> 00:33:21,140
okay, can you make it one 50?

1023
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,810
Like I wanted whatever you're thinking,

1024
00:33:23,810 --> 00:33:25,490
just push it a little bit more.

1025
00:33:25,550 --> 00:33:26,480
I don't want to put,

1026
00:33:26,510 --> 00:33:29,180
push somebody so far outside of their comfort zone that they

1027
00:33:29,180 --> 00:33:30,080
don't act.

1028
00:33:30,860 --> 00:33:33,020
I want to push them a little bit past what they

1029
00:33:33,020 --> 00:33:34,160
might be thinking.

1030
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:35,860
And then you just re you know,

1031
00:33:35,860 --> 00:33:37,790
it was talking to a photographer the other day and she's

1032
00:33:37,790 --> 00:33:38,510
like, well,

1033
00:33:38,510 --> 00:33:40,040
I can't raise my prices yet.

1034
00:33:40,460 --> 00:33:40,850
And I was like,

1035
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:41,420
I'm sorry,

1036
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:42,320
what do you mean?

1037
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:43,190
You can't raise your prices?

1038
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:43,640
And she's like,

1039
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,760
well, everything I've read and seen it tells me to raise

1040
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:47,840
my prices once a year.

1041
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:48,260
And I'm like,

1042
00:33:48,410 --> 00:33:50,000
I don't agree with that at all.

1043
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:50,750
I don't think it's nothing.

1044
00:33:50,990 --> 00:33:52,490
I don't think it's anything to do with time.

1045
00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:53,450
It's not about time.

1046
00:33:54,050 --> 00:33:56,150
You probably more ready to re oh,

1047
00:33:56,180 --> 00:33:56,420
you know,

1048
00:33:56,420 --> 00:33:57,320
which reminds me,

1049
00:33:57,380 --> 00:33:59,060
I kind of want to get into some of this pricing

1050
00:33:59,060 --> 00:34:02,060
discussion, but this might not be the place for it because

1051
00:34:02,060 --> 00:34:05,840
I do have a list of really common mistakes.

1052
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,530
I see photographers making in the beginning regarding their pricing.

1053
00:34:09,530 --> 00:34:10,880
Maybe we could talk about that another time.

1054
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,360
Well, yeah,

1055
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,640
we're going to do another podcast on that a hundred percent.

1056
00:34:13,940 --> 00:34:15,200
Yeah. Okay.

1057
00:34:16,220 --> 00:34:17,870
Yeah. We don't need to get into it today,

1058
00:34:18,170 --> 00:34:19,040
but the point is,

1059
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,310
could you start small with something you're comfortable with push yourself

1060
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:23,780
a little bit and what have you did this?

1061
00:34:23,780 --> 00:34:24,470
What if you said,

1062
00:34:24,650 --> 00:34:30,320
okay, I'll do five people for $150 and 10 files and

1063
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,450
I'll, and then I'll check in with myself.

1064
00:34:32,690 --> 00:34:33,350
How did that go?

1065
00:34:33,350 --> 00:34:34,250
How do I feel?

1066
00:34:34,430 --> 00:34:37,460
Could I raise that to 1 75,

1067
00:34:37,460 --> 00:34:38,000
200, 2 25?

1068
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,840
Could I do five more people at that price so that

1069
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,940
you're constantly in motion and moving forward,

1070
00:34:43,940 --> 00:34:44,870
based on the experience you're getting.

1071
00:34:44,870 --> 00:34:46,190
So this is not Willy nilly.

1072
00:34:46,190 --> 00:34:47,690
I'm not just making this up.

1073
00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:47,840
This is based on,

1074
00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:50,030
oh, I just did five sessions and I learned a lot

1075
00:34:50,030 --> 00:34:51,380
of things and I did five more.

1076
00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:52,940
Now I have 10 that's more experience.

1077
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,950
And then it just compounds upon itself.

1078
00:34:55,330 --> 00:34:56,030
Yeah, I agree.

1079
00:34:56,030 --> 00:34:56,510
A hundred percent.

1080
00:34:56,510 --> 00:34:59,510
And I think the other thing that people wait for,

1081
00:34:59,510 --> 00:35:02,960
they believe that you should only raise prices once a year.

1082
00:35:03,140 --> 00:35:05,600
They believe that you need to let your whole list know

1083
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:06,920
that you're raising prices.

1084
00:35:07,310 --> 00:35:08,570
No, you can just raise your prices.

1085
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,380
And I think the other big one is people who feel

1086
00:35:12,380 --> 00:35:16,670
like they have to wait until they're so busy that like

1087
00:35:16,670 --> 00:35:19,340
the demand has pushed them to raise their prices.

1088
00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:21,260
Right. Where,

1089
00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:24,590
Yeah, I don't know about weddings,

1090
00:35:24,590 --> 00:35:26,000
but at least for portrait photography,

1091
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,190
I have found that there is this whole big,

1092
00:35:28,220 --> 00:35:29,030
no man zone.

1093
00:35:29,210 --> 00:35:31,520
There's a market for the super cheap like,

1094
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,390
well, we're starting off.

1095
00:35:32,390 --> 00:35:32,750
And we're like,

1096
00:35:32,750 --> 00:35:35,420
okay, y'all just do the whole session for $200.

1097
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,870
And there's a market for multi thousand dollar beautiful high-end stuff.

1098
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:43,590
But if you're playing in that like 500 to a thousand

1099
00:35:43,590 --> 00:35:44,640
dollars sandbox,

1100
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:45,690
I think it's really,

1101
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:49,860
really hard because you're too expensive for the people that are

1102
00:35:49,860 --> 00:35:50,670
looking for cheap.

1103
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:53,970
And you're too inexpensive for the people that are looking for

1104
00:35:53,970 --> 00:35:55,440
quality. And,

1105
00:35:55,620 --> 00:35:58,860
and if you're raising your prices and you're like,

1106
00:35:58,860 --> 00:35:59,820
you want to go from that,

1107
00:35:59,820 --> 00:36:01,050
all-inclusive, you know,

1108
00:36:01,050 --> 00:36:04,500
$250 for a session to a boutique experience with a thousand

1109
00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:06,840
dollars plus totally different clients.

1110
00:36:06,930 --> 00:36:09,090
So it doesn't matter if you're booked till the cows come

1111
00:36:09,090 --> 00:36:11,100
home. Those clients aren't necessarily a few,

1112
00:36:11,110 --> 00:36:13,620
right? Most of them are not going to follow you up

1113
00:36:13,620 --> 00:36:14,320
to that new pricing.

1114
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,650
And so you just have to market your business in a

1115
00:36:16,650 --> 00:36:17,970
new way and,

1116
00:36:17,970 --> 00:36:19,620
and find those new clients,

1117
00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:20,940
which they're out there in every market.

1118
00:36:21,450 --> 00:36:23,580
You can And find them in every market.

1119
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:24,570
It don't tell me.

1120
00:36:25,530 --> 00:36:27,360
I love when people say they're rich,

1121
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:28,110
you don't understand,

1122
00:36:28,110 --> 00:36:29,730
you don't know my markets,

1123
00:36:30,540 --> 00:36:31,230
my market,

1124
00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:33,390
they just won't pay.

1125
00:36:33,390 --> 00:36:33,870
And it's,

1126
00:36:33,870 --> 00:36:34,560
you know,

1127
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,280
it's socioeconomically depressed and you haven't seen it.

1128
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,350
You don't understand to which I respond.

1129
00:36:40,380 --> 00:36:43,020
I would love to see that degree in micro or macro

1130
00:36:43,020 --> 00:36:44,220
economics that you have,

1131
00:36:44,220 --> 00:36:45,480
or the studies that you've done.

1132
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,520
You are making that up in your head.

1133
00:36:47,940 --> 00:36:48,990
You have no clue.

1134
00:36:49,170 --> 00:36:51,120
That's just a way to feel better about it.

1135
00:36:51,450 --> 00:36:52,530
They are out there.

1136
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,990
Do you remember when you and I were in West Virginia

1137
00:36:55,050 --> 00:36:58,410
recently and we were driving down this road and it was

1138
00:36:58,410 --> 00:36:59,910
not the fanciest of areas.

1139
00:36:59,910 --> 00:37:00,390
And I said,

1140
00:37:00,390 --> 00:37:01,080
you know what,

1141
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:01,860
there's a market here.

1142
00:37:01,860 --> 00:37:03,270
You just have to find it.

1143
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:05,880
We just have to find where the Yeah,

1144
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:06,450
well there is,

1145
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:08,130
gosh, her name's escaping me,

1146
00:37:08,130 --> 00:37:09,810
but she was a really beaut,

1147
00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:12,210
great, great senior photographer,

1148
00:37:12,210 --> 00:37:12,540
high school,

1149
00:37:12,540 --> 00:37:17,220
senior photographer in the middle of West Virginia and a very

1150
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,850
depressed town that like the coal plant had closed up.

1151
00:37:21,060 --> 00:37:24,720
Like there was nothing economically going on in that town.

1152
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:28,230
And she still ran a very profitable high school,

1153
00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:28,830
senior business.

1154
00:37:29,010 --> 00:37:31,440
Yeah. Maybe she drew on some towns that were further away.

1155
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,330
Maybe she drew on a city that was a little bit

1156
00:37:33,330 --> 00:37:34,200
further away,

1157
00:37:34,620 --> 00:37:36,600
but she found a way to make it work.

1158
00:37:36,660 --> 00:37:37,320
And the same thing,

1159
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:37,740
I always,

1160
00:37:37,740 --> 00:37:38,040
you know,

1161
00:37:38,050 --> 00:37:39,030
bring back to Ben.

1162
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:40,860
Sherk, who's one of my photography idols.

1163
00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:42,690
He does amazing work.

1164
00:37:43,620 --> 00:37:45,030
He doesn't even have a red light.

1165
00:37:45,060 --> 00:37:46,050
Maybe there's one red light.

1166
00:37:46,260 --> 00:37:48,660
I don't think there is in his little town in Iowa,

1167
00:37:49,110 --> 00:37:54,000
Iowa. And he just had like $35,000

1168
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,300
sale. Heather from people that like fly in because its work

1169
00:37:57,300 --> 00:37:59,040
is so stinking.

1170
00:37:59,070 --> 00:38:00,630
Incredible. Are you serious?

1171
00:38:00,630 --> 00:38:01,350
I Didn't know.

1172
00:38:01,350 --> 00:38:04,020
That was possible Hundred percent serious.

1173
00:38:04,170 --> 00:38:04,980
It's it's incredible.

1174
00:38:04,980 --> 00:38:09,120
So I don't want anyone to ever say my market won't

1175
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,350
support My market.

1176
00:38:10,350 --> 00:38:14,340
You don't understand why expand your market.

1177
00:38:14,430 --> 00:38:15,480
Where I live in,

1178
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,520
where I choose to photograph are two different things.

1179
00:38:17,850 --> 00:38:19,710
Yeah. I don't live in my market,

1180
00:38:19,740 --> 00:38:20,430
my market,

1181
00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:21,510
which is sad.

1182
00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:23,520
I would love to have weddings in my area,

1183
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,500
but I don't because it's not where my market is.

1184
00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:26,550
And if I do Nicole,

1185
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:27,900
if I happened to get a wedding locally,

1186
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:29,970
it is like the celebration of the year.

1187
00:38:29,970 --> 00:38:30,870
I'm so happy.

1188
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:31,650
Like I'm local.

1189
00:38:31,890 --> 00:38:36,700
But I knew that based on where we to build our

1190
00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:39,190
home, I knew that I was not in my market,

1191
00:38:39,220 --> 00:38:41,350
but I know that there's a market out there.

1192
00:38:41,650 --> 00:38:43,480
I just have to drive to find it.

1193
00:38:44,020 --> 00:38:45,070
Right. Right.

1194
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:46,540
And you still,

1195
00:38:46,810 --> 00:38:47,140
you know,

1196
00:38:47,140 --> 00:38:50,140
I can hear somebody saying Buena want to drive two hours.

1197
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,770
Well, you can become so desire that they'll drive to you.

1198
00:38:54,580 --> 00:38:58,960
You can also build your business in a way that still

1199
00:38:59,380 --> 00:39:04,180
will be applicable to your market in a way that can

1200
00:39:04,180 --> 00:39:04,900
be profitable.

1201
00:39:05,380 --> 00:39:07,450
So no two photography,

1202
00:39:07,450 --> 00:39:10,180
businesses needs to look alike and no one says,

1203
00:39:10,180 --> 00:39:13,060
do you have to have multi thousand dollar averages?

1204
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,250
You can run a super profitable,

1205
00:39:15,940 --> 00:39:17,080
more volume,

1206
00:39:17,110 --> 00:39:18,550
lower price business.

1207
00:39:18,580 --> 00:39:23,320
It really just depends on how you want to build your

1208
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,300
business, how much you want to work,

1209
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,750
how you want to schedule your days.

1210
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:30,310
And just all of those things,

1211
00:39:30,460 --> 00:39:32,020
it's completely customizable.

1212
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:32,830
It is,

1213
00:39:32,830 --> 00:39:33,040
you know,

1214
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:33,610
that reminds me.

1215
00:39:33,610 --> 00:39:36,100
I was talking to a wedding photographer in my town recently.

1216
00:39:36,130 --> 00:39:37,540
Maybe this is a couple months ago.

1217
00:39:37,570 --> 00:39:37,960
And I said,

1218
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,640
how many weddings a year do you have?

1219
00:39:39,970 --> 00:39:41,590
And it was like over a hundred.

1220
00:39:41,860 --> 00:39:42,340
And I was like,

1221
00:39:42,340 --> 00:39:43,000
okay, hold on.

1222
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:43,780
Okay. I said,

1223
00:39:43,810 --> 00:39:44,680
well, let's stop.

1224
00:39:45,820 --> 00:39:47,770
I have 52 Weeks a year.

1225
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,460
I have photographed 30 weddings in one year and wanted to

1226
00:39:51,460 --> 00:39:54,310
die. That's that is a lot of weddings.

1227
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,080
He's not just one person.

1228
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:56,770
He has a studio.

1229
00:39:56,770 --> 00:39:58,120
He has associate photographers.

1230
00:39:58,180 --> 00:40:00,310
And the pricing is a little bit lower than mine,

1231
00:40:00,310 --> 00:40:01,420
but their volume based.

1232
00:40:02,050 --> 00:40:04,060
Right? So they are very successful.

1233
00:40:04,060 --> 00:40:05,800
They do very well based on volume.

1234
00:40:05,830 --> 00:40:09,640
It just depends on what fits your season of life,

1235
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,200
your business by design,

1236
00:40:11,380 --> 00:40:12,160
you set it up.

1237
00:40:12,190 --> 00:40:15,310
However you'd like to whether that's volume or boutique,

1238
00:40:15,340 --> 00:40:16,450
there's no right or wrong.

1239
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:20,380
Yep. And we can help you do that inside here,

1240
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:22,660
the dog academy or elevate or the flourish academy.

1241
00:40:22,660 --> 00:40:23,440
So come join us.

1242
00:40:24,220 --> 00:40:24,700
Of course.

1243
00:40:25,090 --> 00:40:25,930
Oh Heather,

1244
00:40:25,930 --> 00:40:27,280
this has been so good.

1245
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:32,410
I hope that this conversation has encouraged you guys to rethink

1246
00:40:32,410 --> 00:40:33,220
about, you know,

1247
00:40:33,220 --> 00:40:35,800
what needs to happen before you start charging.

1248
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,690
And hopefully give you a little bit of confidence to go

1249
00:40:37,690 --> 00:40:39,340
out and start doing it.

1250
00:40:39,340 --> 00:40:41,410
If this is something that you want to do,

1251
00:40:41,770 --> 00:40:44,800
like if you have listened to this whole entire podcast now

1252
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,540
40 some minutes into it,

1253
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,940
then there's something in you likely that wants to pursue this.

1254
00:40:52,090 --> 00:40:54,520
So why not do that?

1255
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,410
Remember if you don't,

1256
00:40:57,010 --> 00:41:00,910
you're being selfish And it's not a matter it's yourself.

1257
00:41:01,070 --> 00:41:01,960
Right, right.

1258
00:41:02,050 --> 00:41:02,530
That's true.

1259
00:41:02,770 --> 00:41:05,050
It's not a matter of being ready.

1260
00:41:05,830 --> 00:41:08,770
It's a matter of being committed or excited to pursue your

1261
00:41:08,770 --> 00:41:10,120
passion for photography.

1262
00:41:10,510 --> 00:41:13,660
Absolutely. So just get started no better time to start the

1263
00:41:13,660 --> 00:41:15,340
now, anyway,

1264
00:41:15,370 --> 00:41:18,850
we would love to know how this impacted you feel free

1265
00:41:18,850 --> 00:41:21,190
to shoot us a DM on Instagram hair of the dog

1266
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:25,450
academy or flourish academy for Heather and let us know.

1267
00:41:25,810 --> 00:41:27,640
And if you love this episode,

1268
00:41:28,060 --> 00:41:31,390
we'd love a review on iTunes.

1269
00:41:31,390 --> 00:41:33,040
So please go ahead and leave that.

1270
00:41:33,350 --> 00:41:34,220
And in the meantime,

1271
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:37,610
Heather, it won't be long till we see you back on

1272
00:41:37,610 --> 00:41:38,870
the hair of the dog podcast again.

1273
00:41:39,590 --> 00:41:40,910
So thanks again for joining us.

1274
00:41:41,150 --> 00:41:42,050
Thank you for having me.

1275
00:41:43,010 --> 00:41:45,200
If you enjoy this podcast episode,

1276
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,590
go ahead and take a screenshot of this episode on your

1277
00:41:48,590 --> 00:41:51,860
phone and post it up there on your Instagram stories and

1278
00:41:51,860 --> 00:41:55,370
be sure to tag us at hair of the dog academy.

1279
00:41:55,490 --> 00:41:59,030
And we would just love to see how you're listening and

1280
00:41:59,030 --> 00:42:00,170
a full disclosure.

1281
00:42:00,290 --> 00:42:03,710
Sometimes we just like to give away a little pet photographer,

1282
00:42:03,710 --> 00:42:07,580
swag in the form of hair of the dog t-shirts and

1283
00:42:07,580 --> 00:42:10,130
sweatshirts. So what are you waiting for?

1284
00:42:10,190 --> 00:42:13,280
Go ahead and share that screenshot of this episode.

1285
00:42:13,550 --> 00:42:15,680
And don't forget to tag us at hair of the dog

1286
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,450
academy. And while you're there,

1287
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:19,760
maybe you want to jump on over to our account and

1288
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,730
see what we're up to on the gram would love to

1289
00:42:22,730 --> 00:42:23,540
connect with you.

1290
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,540
Thanks for listening to the hair of the dog podcast.

1291
00:42:26,570 --> 00:42:28,970
This was episode number 105.

1292
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:31,220
If you want to check out the show notes for access

1293
00:42:31,220 --> 00:42:33,260
to any of the links that we shared in the episode,

1294
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:38,360
simply go to www.hairofthedogacademy.com/

1295
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:39,710
1 0 5.

1296
00:42:40,910 --> 00:42:43,910
Thanks for listening to this episode of hair of the dog

1297
00:42:43,940 --> 00:42:46,310
podcast. If you enjoyed this show,

1298
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,140
please take a minute to leave a review.

1299
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:49,220
And while you're there,

1300
00:42:49,370 --> 00:42:50,720
don't forget to subscribe.

1301
00:42:50,780 --> 00:42:54,230
So you don't miss our upcoming episodes on last thing,

1302
00:42:54,650 --> 00:42:57,290
if you are ready to dive into more resources,

1303
00:42:57,590 --> 00:43:02,960
head over to our [email protected].

1304
00:43:03,290 --> 00:43:06,500
Thanks for being a part of this pet photography community.

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